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Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

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Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#151

Post by shantly »

greatscott404 wrote: post #110
pjc50 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in a perfect world labor unions would be illegal

As in workers can't legally demand higher wages as a group, as in those negotiations won't be legally binding and fines would be imposed on strikers, no need to hit anyone.

Laborers can't collectivize as soon as capital can't collectivize (incorporate). I'm on board this train, let's do it. Ban collective action in the economy, especially that supported and enabled by the government. In all its forms. Where's the petition I can sign?

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#152

Post by Junk_Collector »

gbronner wrote: post #124
novok wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you work in a tech company, you'll quickly realize that the food is something everyone focuses on to a disproportionate degree. This guy knows what he is talking about.

I asked a millennial why she cared so much about the free coffee, and she told me that it symbolizes the employer's 'caring' about the staff.. Personally, I'd rather earn an extra $25k and buy a few cups of coffee with it than get "free coffee".

Simple perks like free coffee are a canary for the corporate coal mine.

When you look at the cost of coffee or soda, providing it free may cost the company in the ballpark of $500 a year per employee (though often less) which is minuscule in the total annual cost of an employee. Taken in a vacuum however, the number looks big. We spent how much on Coffee last quarter! When companies get to the mostly investor owned squeezing for growth stage, it's almost always among the first thing that gets cut. This is then usually followed by other more important quality of life cuts like training, equipment, and bonuses. Many companies hit this stage and start increasing margins by letting inflation eat their employee's high salaries over time for instance.

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#153

Post by notJim »

chomp wrote: post #71
reaperducer wrote: post #47

I have mixed feelings about unions, but I'm OK with this move. Cafeteria workers need unions. The maids who muck out hotel room toilets need unions. Coal miners who work in horrific conditions for little pay need unions. You know who doesn't need unions? Millionaire TV anchors. Millionaire movie studio execs and actors. Anyone who makes six figures, which includes a hell of a lot of union members. In those cases the…

All workers can be abused regardless of their salary. Examples for programmers that come to mind: - Companies that require workers to enter arbitration and give up their right to sue. - Companies that force workers to give up IP generated in their free time (not using company resources) - Companies that require programmers to work 12 hour days, "crunch times", minimal paid leave (game dev industry, VFX industry comes…

A lot of people on HN are interested in a 30-hour work week. A strong union movement could get that done, as they have been working on in Germany: https://www.businessinsider.com/german-workers-can-now-work-...

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#154

Post by Apocryphon »

greatscott404 wrote: post #127
pjc50 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fines would be imposed on strikers .. which won't be paid, and you have to deal with the picket line. State fines for non-attendance at work? State fines for calling in sick? Seriously, this is how you get Chile. Or Venezuela.

A striking union would be fined, they can figure out the allocation amongst themselves.

And how are fines enforced? Does a libertarian really need to be educated on why their ideology came up with the NAP?

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#155

Post by dominotw »

tehjoker wrote: post #62
dominotw wrote: post #5

ppl also talk a lot about union for tech workers. Its not feasible in tech because a sizable majority of tech workers are on various visa's that precludes them from joining a strike, making the union essentially ineffective. This needs to be addressed first. Chicago has teachers union but filipino teachers on J1 cannot participate in a strike, it works for CTU because there are only a tiny fraction on J1 visa.

You can strike if you're on a visa, but it does put you at enhanced risk of retaliation. You can strike even if it is illegal. The question is the balance of power. For example, if the company retaliates against visa workers, and the other workers strike in protest, the company will probably not continue to try that. This is why solidarity between workers of different dispositions is so important.

> You can strike if you're on a visa

You are right, for some reason i thought it was not possible.

But from what I've seen, lot of H1B people are subcontractors.

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#156

Post by mark_l_watson »

Good for them. I mostly ate at their Mexican cafe and Authentic Asian Cafe (I forget the exact name), but sampled many others. The cafeteria workers would remember me, be friendly and helpful, and certainly deserve to make a good living.

I used to be ambivalent about labor unions but in modern times when corporations act as all powerful gods, hell yes, unionize.

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#157

Post by lacker »

gbronner wrote: post #124
novok wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you work in a tech company, you'll quickly realize that the food is something everyone focuses on to a disproportionate degree. This guy knows what he is talking about.

I asked a millennial why she cared so much about the free coffee, and she told me that it symbolizes the employer's 'caring' about the staff.. Personally, I'd rather earn an extra $25k and buy a few cups of coffee with it than get "free coffee".

For coffee especially it’s a big waste of time for me to leave the premises to go buy some coffee every time I want coffee. Even in the crappiest workplaces I have worked in - like the torn-up remnants of a Charles Schwab office that they had vacated, without removing all the trash, and some dubious middleman re-rented single rooms to startups - the inhabitants would informally band together to provide free coffee.

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#158

Post by refurb »

gbronner wrote: post #124
novok wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you work in a tech company, you'll quickly realize that the food is something everyone focuses on to a disproportionate degree. This guy knows what he is talking about.

I asked a millennial why she cared so much about the free coffee, and she told me that it symbolizes the employer's 'caring' about the staff.. Personally, I'd rather earn an extra $25k and buy a few cups of coffee with it than get "free coffee".

Yup, my employer would often host big celebrations throughout the year. I’d much rather have a $500 bonus for each one of them (or whatever it cost them).

Paying for perks is a great way to avoid paying a higher salary.

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#159

Post by refurb »

tehjoker wrote: post #76

This was a really great Twitter thread about how capitalism isn't really about meritocracy but about bargaining power and by implication how necessary unions are for workers to be treated humanely and paid more than the bare minimum for survival: https://twitter.com/ArashKolahi/status/1210332075787608065

As someone who has worked in a union shop, it’s not always a great way to achieve meritocracy.

It’s usually based on seniority.

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#160

Post by ianleeclark »

pjc50 wrote: post #75
reaperducer wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they need something like a guild with membership fees and staff lawyers that would sue the state for allowing binding arbitration and non compete agreements Serious question: How is this kind of a guild different from a union in your view?

Professional organisations are middle class, while unions are working class. (Per downthread, the dividing line is really "if your organisation comes into conflict with the state, does the fight happen in a courtroom or on the street?")

> Professional organisations are middle class, while unions are working class.

I see a lot of hemming and hawing about "the middle class," but I don't think it has any real meaning. What defines the middle class and how is the working class excluded from it? Are you using "the middle class," as a substitute for a professional/managerial class?

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