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How My School and District Failed its Students

anurbanteacherseducation.com

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Re: How My School and District Failed its Students

#111

Post by moultano »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #100
kenjackson wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I suspect the problem is these children were disruptive at age 8 and no one did anything. I don't think letting a 12 year old decide they don't have to go to school is the answer. But I do think they should not be allowed to disrupt the education of others. There are some intereting alternative schools that may be a way to tackle the issue. It's not an easy problem. With that said, I think what this essay ad…

None of the students at Promise Academy have supportive fathers or grandfathers?

For a poor black child to have a father in the home is currently atypical: http://www.theroot.com/buzz/72-percent-african-american-chil...

Re: How My School and District Failed its Students

#112

Post by hardik988 »

jordan0day wrote: post #54
swift wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry to hear you had that experience. I do not approve of running a school, or any organization, based on fear, much less the threat of physical violence. Is this something that would be appropriate for the adult world? I don't think so. We shouldn't beat children just because they're smaller than us and can't fight back.

Meh. While I never received physical punishment at school (I do believe it occasionally happened at my elementary school, I never got into that level of trouble there), I was occasionally spanked by my parents when I acted rotten. I don't resent my parents for it, in fact I think they're great people and love them very much. I knew at the time why I was receiving that punishment, and I'm mature enough enough now to r…

The problem with corporal punishment (in an Indian perspective) is, the highly underpaid teachers don't quite know when to stop beating the child. Almost every month, I hear about kids being beaten to death in schools in rural / semi-urban India, and the helpless parents can only wail as the justice system is so screwed up.

Re: How My School and District Failed its Students

#113

Post by jux »

Honestly, looking back at myself in highschool, I was a little shithead. I became rebellious at a pretty early age due to my school district having incredibly strict policies, mostly because it was run by fundamentalists. The class where I believed I was the biggest cunt was my chemistry class, where my teacher would often push his evangelical beliefs into the curriculum : Earth is 6000 years old, evolution is a myth, stars are only there to corrupt people into evil, etc. The list goes on.

I'd often interrupt class and get into arguments with him because I called him out on this bullshit pretty regularly and frankly I just couldn't take him seriously even at that age. This was in a public school system in a small city in Texas, so I suppose it's kind of expected.

Re: How My School and District Failed its Students

#114

Post by stuaxo »

michaelchisari wrote: post #23
maxharris wrote: post #2

My solution? Make attendance voluntary by abolishing truancy laws. Disruptive students don't want to be there, and forcing them to go doesn't teach them anything. Human beings can't be forced to think. This runs absolutely counter to all kinds of notions and traditions, but it's how nature is. Wishing, legislating and expecting that facts be otherwise won't work any better here than it would in the physical sciences…

From my knowledge of radical education approaches like Summerhill or Ferrer's Modern School, I would agree with that, with one caveat: Students don't have to attend class. They just have to go to school. They can choose, on a daily basis, what class they want to be in. If they disrupt, they're kicked out of class for the day, since attendance at that class is a voluntary association. To get credit and a grade for a c…

Oh man... I would have totally failed at this school, I never bothered with homework, just did the tests. Also, some bits where I missed the coursework I was allowed to do extra tests. For now my career has been fine, but if I'd have gone to the school your designing I wouldn't have got into college and would be basically fucked.

Re: How My School and District Failed its Students

#115

Post by yardie »

skunkworks wrote: post #104
jmm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha. The pickle here is that we (the government, the bleeding hearts, those capable of compassion) have to acknowledge that these kids were dealt a pretty bad hand, and that they are, after all, still kids. So we owe them a fair shot and some patience -- it's not acceptable to give up on them as products of the system. Because in one way or another we're part of the system. And they're kids. My sister participated in…

Came here just to chime in about Season 4 of The Wire. For those who haven't seen it, a large portion of it focuses on a new school initiative where disruptive students are removed from their classes and isolated in a smaller, more focused setting to work out their issues (if at all possible). The controversy is the perception it gives of putting the troubled kids through a lesser education, which is ironic consideri…

Just proves "what's old is new again" in education. With all the new rules and zero-tolerance policies your, your options as a teacher are to either let the kid continue or have him kicked out of school permanently. Gone are the days of detention, sitting in the VP's office, or student-parent-teacher meetings.

The breakdown of the family is what I consider the largest contributor to failing students. It's already hard enough to work and come home to do more work. Add in the guidance a kid needs and you are too tired to provide. You have a good chance that your kid is being raised by their friends and not you. Even if most of your kids friends are good it only takes one to spoil them all.

Re: How My School and District Failed its Students

#116

Post by ericd »

hardik988 wrote: post #112
jordan0day wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. While I never received physical punishment at school (I do believe it occasionally happened at my elementary school, I never got into that level of trouble there), I was occasionally spanked by my parents when I acted rotten. I don't resent my parents for it, in fact I think they're great people and love them very much. I knew at the time why I was receiving that punishment, and I'm mature enough enough now to r…

The problem with corporal punishment (in an Indian perspective) is, the highly underpaid teachers don't quite know when to stop beating the child. Almost every month, I hear about kids being beaten to death in schools in rural / semi-urban India, and the helpless parents can only wail as the justice system is so screwed up.

Seriously? It seems pretty easy to know how not to beat someone to death. It's very easy to inflict a lot of pain with only superficial injury - with a cane or paddle, for example.

Re: How My School and District Failed its Students

#117

Post by PakG1 »

moultano wrote: post #111
ryanwaggoner wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the students at Promise Academy have supportive fathers or grandfathers?

For a poor black child to have a father in the home is currently atypical: http://www.theroot.com/buzz/72-percent-african-american-chil...

As an addendum, that's an issue of the parents failing, not the school. The primary responsibility for a child's welfare should fall to the parents, not the schools. Schools are secondary. If schools take the primary initiative, there's even more incentive for parents who are on the decision margin to offload that responsibility to the schools and instead focus on other (potentially, but not necessarily, more selfish) things.

Re: How My School and District Failed its Students

#118

Post by ZachPruckowski »

grannyg00se wrote: post #16

I don't agree with the notion that classroom discipline is the teacher's responsibility. If a child needs discipline, the child should be sent away to receive it. A teacher should be responsible for teaching, period. Also, if a child commits a crime in school (vandalism, verbal assault, physical assault, disturbing the peace) and is found to be a threat to the learning environment then they should be suspended. It's…

I blame the parental situation, for two reasons. First of all, if my parents got a message on their voicemail (and schools have parents' phone numbers) or on my report card comments saying so much as "Zach can be slightly disruptive sometimes", then they'd darn well make me behave myself. Which brings us to the second reason - a lot of parents seem unwilling to lay down the law and make their children respect their authority even slightly. I'm not suggesting we go back to beating kids with switches or anything, but I think there's a fundamental link between whether or not you make kids eat their vegetables and whether or not they'll listen to the teacher.

Now I'm sure there are a lot of mitigating factors on the parental side, in terms of having to work long hours to put food on the table, but in the end, discipline and respect begin at home.

Re: How My School and District Failed its Students

#119

Post by jordan0day »

hardik988 wrote: post #112
jordan0day wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. While I never received physical punishment at school (I do believe it occasionally happened at my elementary school, I never got into that level of trouble there), I was occasionally spanked by my parents when I acted rotten. I don't resent my parents for it, in fact I think they're great people and love them very much. I knew at the time why I was receiving that punishment, and I'm mature enough enough now to r…

The problem with corporal punishment (in an Indian perspective) is, the highly underpaid teachers don't quite know when to stop beating the child. Almost every month, I hear about kids being beaten to death in schools in rural / semi-urban India, and the helpless parents can only wail as the justice system is so screwed up.

That really sucks if true. Like ericd says, however, I don't think you can beat someone to death when administering corporal punishment just because you "didn't quite know when to stop". I think you're giving the beater too much leeway.

I'm not really advocating the return of corporal punishment in American schools. It's such a political issue, and potential liability, that I have a hard time seeing it ever making a return.

Re: How My School and District Failed its Students

#120

Post by ZachPruckowski »

jordan0day wrote: post #105
radioactive21 wrote: post #80

PARENTING. The root cause in all of these issues is parenting. If the parents don't bother to care about their kid's education, it's already lost. The education and school system is part of the problem, but you can trace the child's inability to learn back to the parents. 1) Parents dont care about the child's learning 2) The child realizes the parents dont care and so they mess around in class 3) Teacher and school…

While I'm sure your premise is entirely correct, blaming parenting is essentially punting on the issue. It might be entirely accurate, but it doesn't help any, because it is one thing that can't be changed by the teacher or school administrator.

OK, but if teachers and administrators can't do more than write nasty notes in files and make kids sit in the corner, and we can't expect parents to discipline their kids, then any sort of educational reform targeted at those kids is basically trying to push a string.

This idea that a teacher can stand up in front of the class and say something so inspiring that it magically makes the goof-offs and the slackers want to be A+ students is great for a Hollywood movie, but completely unrealistic. On a 1-on-1 basis, sure that's probably possible if you're really good, and really can take the time. But if teachers had the power to inspire and move those troublemakers en masse with the power of their words without taking half their class time, then they wouldn't be teachers, they'd be world-class salespeople or winning politicians.

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