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Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

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Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#111

Post by philwelch »

djrobstep wrote: post #69
amiga_500 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UBI would just feed directly into rents because that's how prices are set. UBI would require land value tax to ensure the public value is capture for public spending. UBI alone is a land speculator wet dream and Yang is totally wrong to be pushing it without LVT. Yes in the middle of nowhere it can help, but most people are in cities and rents will rise there to current rent + UBI amount.

The rent thing is a bad argument against UBI, because you can make the same argument about any program that benefits the poor - even if all the UBI money goes back into rent, UBI would equalise housing spend along the way, from rich to poor and from worker to non-worker, vastly reducing poverty. Even for people not in poverty it would help even out their income over their life cycle - more money when they have kids,…

> even if all the UBI money goes back into rent, UBI would equalise housing spend along the way, from rich to poor and from worker to non-worker, vastly reducing poverty

How would that be? If your rent goes up $1000 regardless of what you're paying now, someone who earns $0 and can't afford a $600 apartment now collects $1000 and can't afford a $1600 apartment while the guy who could afford the $600 apartment by earning $1500 now has a monthly income of $2500 and a $1600 apartment.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#112

Post by kazinator »

> Combined with a continuing surge in the number of new college graduates entering the labor market, this resulted in stagnating wages in those jobs along with a “cascade” of college graduates into lower-skill jobs. These underemployed college graduates, in turn, pushed some low-skilled workers out of the job market altogether.

Right ... yet, believe this paper when it says that those pushed-out-of-the-job-market low-skilled workers with no college degrees are not any worse off.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#113

Post by blondin »

college provides such access to knowledge not available anywhere else (not legally to my knowledge). any progress is most likely to come from academia first due to that concentration of knowledge.

so if we are truly heading towards a collegeless future, i am hoping that anyone who can contribute to research can get access to that knowledge. money is a major concern, but if we can't make progress then we have a bigger issue.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#114

Post by dahart »

cm2012 wrote: post #7

I can't find the citation now but the biggest argument against college I've seen is that once you control for family income, life success is way more correlated to SAT scores/the college's you apply for than the ones you actually attend. This would imply that college success stats merely indicate that they are selective in who they choose to enroll. EDIT: Its not the one I'm looking for, but I found a good one. http:…

IQ correllates somewhat with income and even more with school performance, so by “controlling for IQ”, the authors are intentionally flattening and hiding some of the income variation. They’re effectively discounting for the probability of going to college in the first place. That will, of course, hide differences in income due to going to college.

The actual data shown in that reference seems to tell a different story, it shows people with college degrees earning 20-50k per year, on average, after taxes. That will sum to more than $100k over a lifetime.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#115

Post by amiga_500 »

djrobstep wrote: post #69
amiga_500 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UBI would just feed directly into rents because that's how prices are set. UBI would require land value tax to ensure the public value is capture for public spending. UBI alone is a land speculator wet dream and Yang is totally wrong to be pushing it without LVT. Yes in the middle of nowhere it can help, but most people are in cities and rents will rise there to current rent + UBI amount.

The rent thing is a bad argument against UBI, because you can make the same argument about any program that benefits the poor - even if all the UBI money goes back into rent, UBI would equalise housing spend along the way, from rich to poor and from worker to non-worker, vastly reducing poverty. Even for people not in poverty it would help even out their income over their life cycle - more money when they have kids,…

> because you can make the same argument about any program that benefits the poor

Yes, I think many things go straight back into land.

The UK has 'housing benefit'. It's 'landlord benefit', because it subsidises unpayable rents.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#116

Post by amiga_500 »

seem_2211 wrote: post #72
amiga_500 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I knew NZ was pretty messed up but I didn't realise it was that bad. The friend bit is anecdata. Looks like NZ avg debt is $28k NZD [1] USA is $29 USD [2] So USA is 50% more expensive, on avg (NZDUSD 1.5). IMHO both are a disgrace, but that's another thing. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_loans_in_New_Zealand#S... 2: https://studentloanhero.com/student-loan-debt-statistics/

Yeah it's not great! There's fairly decent financial aid available to cover your living costs if you're from a low income family, but that cuts off pretty quickly, and unlike the US, there isn't really a culture of paying for your children's education, so there's a lot of kids (like me) who grew up upper-middle class but didn't get much help through university. Overall, I'd equate the USD = NZD as realtively equivale…

Sure, I used the FX rate in your case as you are paid USA wages but your debt was NZD.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#117

Post by seem_2211 »

soperj wrote: post #104
seem_2211 wrote: post #12

I have a degree from a no-name university in New Zealand. I'd do it again for a few pragmatic reasons. 1: Lots of companies will reject you on sight without a degree. I don't think it's a good thing, but it is reality. 2: With a degree your ability to move overseas dramatically improves. I moved to America after graduating. I flat out couldn't have done that without a degree. Points based systems immigration systems…

What are you talking about? Otago is what dreams are made of!

Haha, especially if you like burning couches! I went to Waikato.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#118

Post by kerkeslager »

One thing I don't see talked about a lot is the risk involved in going to college.

All the frequently-cited studies about college look at the incomes of college graduates versus the incomes of non-college graduates, and then compare that to the cost of education, and that generally looks fairly positive.

But of students who enroll in 4-year programs, only 60% graduate within 6 years[1]. For these students, college has actively harmed them: they're saddled with crippling debt, but don't get the benefits of a college degree. Also consider that they aren't working as many hours, if any, during college, so they lose even more in wages they could have earned.

The EV if starting and finishing college is coming into question, but the EV of starting college is clearly negative if you have only a 60% chance of finishing.

[1] https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=40

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#119

Post by cm2012 »

dahart wrote: post #114
cm2012 wrote: post #7

I can't find the citation now but the biggest argument against college I've seen is that once you control for family income, life success is way more correlated to SAT scores/the college's you apply for than the ones you actually attend. This would imply that college success stats merely indicate that they are selective in who they choose to enroll. EDIT: Its not the one I'm looking for, but I found a good one. http:…

IQ correllates somewhat with income and even more with school performance, so by “controlling for IQ”, the authors are intentionally flattening and hiding some of the income variation. They’re effectively discounting for the probability of going to college in the first place. That will, of course, hide differences in income due to going to college. The actual data shown in that reference seems to tell a different sto…

They account for that plus a lot of other factors in the 100k number. Basically the conclusion is, for people born from 1920 to 1980, college was net value add accounting for everything else, but not a huge one.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#120

Post by crimsonalucard »

blondin wrote: post #113

college provides such access to knowledge not available anywhere else (not legally to my knowledge). any progress is most likely to come from academia first due to that concentration of knowledge. so if we are truly heading towards a collegeless future, i am hoping that anyone who can contribute to research can get access to that knowledge. money is a major concern, but if we can't make progress then we have a bigger…

The internet changes this in a major way. However, colleges force students to learn what experts deem as important.

This is very important as students tend to want to learn what's interesting over what's fundamental and important.

In my mind, university is ALWAYS better then no university, the actual thing that puts this in question is... is the cost worth it?

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