Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
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Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
#2I don't have a degree and am constantly told in rejections by potential employers, and my own employer when applying for advancement, that they are looking for degree holders. Many job listings also flat out state a 4-year degree is a minimum.
A degree would absolutely, positively, beyond any shadow of a doubt improve my chances of increasing my income. At my current job only about 7%.
But the tens of thousands of dollars of debt I'd have to take on to get that degree at 4.5-7% interest (or higher)... yeah thanks but no thanks.
So, anecdotally at least, I can agree that there are pretty diminishing returns to getting a degree. While I'd be all but guaranteed to increase my income, I'd be paying out more though:
a 20k 10-year loan at 6.8% (finaid.org suggested this %) interest means I'm paying 27,619.31
a 40k 10-year loan at 6.8% interest means I'm paying 55,238.63
At my current income the 20k loan, bumping up one position and considering our raises inside a position are limited to less than 3.5% annually based on a rather arbitrary 'merit review'. It would be 7-10 years of my increased pay just to cover the loan, assuming no taxes were taken on the increase but also factoring in insurance increases. That means in 14 years I could start keeping more money from that 4 year degree if I could manage a 20k$ degree.
Ha!
Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
#3I don't have a degree and am constantly told in rejections by potential employers, and my own employer when applying for advancement, that they are looking for degree holders. Many job listings also flat out state a 4-year degree is a minimum. A degree would absolutely, positively, beyond any shadow of a doubt improve my chances of increasing my income. At my current job only about 7%. But the tens of thousands of do…
Aren't you contradicting yourself somewhat here? The alternate universe version of you wouldn't have the same job - as you say in paragraph 1 you'd work somewhere else.
People on here earn top percentile salaries which warp the calculus, myself included, but $50K is approximately one year of the UK median income (I imagine the US figure is similar).
I'd be worried about making back hundreds of thousands in a low paid field. But a 50K degree in a well paid field is a no brainer to me.
Earnings increases are cumulative. I'm almost certainly 200% over what I'd have without my undergrad, and not just due to the piece of paper.
Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
#4I don't have a degree and am constantly told in rejections by potential employers, and my own employer when applying for advancement, that they are looking for degree holders. Many job listings also flat out state a 4-year degree is a minimum. A degree would absolutely, positively, beyond any shadow of a doubt improve my chances of increasing my income. At my current job only about 7%. But the tens of thousands of do…
Would you be willing to name names? Outside of government and defense contractors I personally have not run into any blocks from not having a degree, but I am in the SV bubble where up is down so I have a heavy bias.
Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
#5Their familial controls don't make much sense to me.
An actuary's kid will have an easier time becoming an actuary. Same for lawyers and doctors. That doesn't mean that college is a non causal factor in those students lifetime earnings... Quite the opposite. You're not becoming any of those things without college.
The student went to college precisely because they understand viscerally and precisely how college sets them up for a life of higher than average earnings. And what they need to do at college to tap into that potential.
Similarly, I'm not sure I believe the claim that there's no obvious causal link between education and financial acumen.
The big difference seems to be "do you know WHY you are at college?" And in cases where the answer is yes, it's still a good choice.
Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
#6If 'free college' becomes the norm, it will become as valuable as what you paid for it - nothing.
Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
#7I can't find the citation now but the biggest argument against college I've seen is that once you control for family income, life success is way more correlated to SAT scores/the college's you apply for than the ones you actually attend. This would imply that college success stats merely indicate that they are selective in who they choose to enroll.
EDIT: Its not the one I'm looking for, but I found a good one. http://conference.iza.org/conference_files/CoNoCoSk2011/gens... shows that if you control for IQ, the average person makes $100k more over the course of their whole working life by getting a bachelor's.
- This doesn't even account for the four years of work you lose by going to college instead of working.
- Its based on data from people who mostly graduated before the year 2000, and by all accounts the value of college is becoming less, not more. It's also based on a calculation when college was much cheaper.
Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
#8I don't have a degree and am constantly told in rejections by potential employers, and my own employer when applying for advancement, that they are looking for degree holders. Many job listings also flat out state a 4-year degree is a minimum. A degree would absolutely, positively, beyond any shadow of a doubt improve my chances of increasing my income. At my current job only about 7%. But the tens of thousands of do…
Would you be willing to name names? Outside of government and defense contractors I personally have not run into any blocks from not having a degree, but I am in the SV bubble where up is down so I have a heavy bias.
> Would you be willing to name names? Outside of government and defense contractors I personally have not run into any blocks from not having a degree,
There are _so_ many places where a degree is a must that it's better to ask which institution will happily accept you without a degree without complications (besides the obvious Google and Tesla).
But to give you an answer: lots of hospitals, lots of defense contractors. Me, I was hired by a hospital as a researcher, but there were a great many complications about the pay (my boss said he wanted to pay me more but couldn't).
And, suppose you wanted to emigrate somewhere, say Belgium. It turns out it's just easier to do it if you have a degree than not. You encounter these issues in places you'd least expect them. Just for convenience sake I'm considering getting one.
Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
#9I don't have a degree and am constantly told in rejections by potential employers, and my own employer when applying for advancement, that they are looking for degree holders. Many job listings also flat out state a 4-year degree is a minimum. A degree would absolutely, positively, beyond any shadow of a doubt improve my chances of increasing my income. At my current job only about 7%. But the tens of thousands of do…
It deeply depends on your field.
I saw a developer position recently that required at least a four-year degree and it genuinely surprised me because of how infrequent that requirement appears on developer job postings. The vast majority of posts I see are "four years degree or equivalent experience"
I've worked in software shops before where less than half of the staff had a 4-year degree completed—but it is noteworthy y that everyone had at least some college.
>and my own employer when applying for advancement
That I have seen before, but in higher-ed, where it is kind of a given as it is sort of an eating-your-own-dog-food requirement. If your top employees don't have a degree, and you sell degrees, it can tarnish your appearance.
Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]
#10I don't have a degree and am constantly told in rejections by potential employers, and my own employer when applying for advancement, that they are looking for degree holders. Many job listings also flat out state a 4-year degree is a minimum. A degree would absolutely, positively, beyond any shadow of a doubt improve my chances of increasing my income. At my current job only about 7%. But the tens of thousands of do…
my gf just finished her nurse practitioner degree and while she increased her salary from 60k to 90k, her student loan payments, with some loans being 10% !, eat up all of her increased income. She's happier, but after all the bills, she has the same left over. So from an economic standpoint, she got an advanced degree that benefitted her school and the bank.