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I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

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Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#151

Post by 2sk21 »

sethammons wrote: post #68

Some eye openers there for me. They saved 40k for their kid and on average parents save 18k for their kids?! We saved exactly $0.00 for my oldest. My middle kid is a freshman. $0.00. And my youngest is 9, also $0.00. The number one thing you must save for is your own retirement. I just this last year started funding that adequately due to life circumstances. We are just recently able to help out with education costs…

Your approach is right - you need to save for your own retirement as the highest priority.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#152

Post by learc83 »

starpilot wrote: post #125
honkycat wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this trade school obsession is foolish. Everyone cargo-cults it as "pragmatic" without actually analyzing what the jobs entail and what you can actually expect to make. Statistically, you still earn way more with a degree than without. You EARN that pay in the trades, and being an electrician is dangerous. The work is hard on your body. A lot of electricians end up on disability. I wasn't very academic growin…

Factoring in tuition costs, plumbers earn almost the same lifetime income as doctors: https://www.high-profile.com/plumber-vs-doctor-who-brings-in... And it's generally not a life threatening career.

That's complete bullshit. I've known plenty of plumbers, I've never met one who had almost $1 million saved up by 33--which is the example they are using.

Sure some small percentage of plumbers might make $90k after 5 years and manage to seriously save. But that's not anywhere close to normal.

Also even with the cherry picked example of a union plumber who is unbelievably disciplined with respect to saving. And a doctor who does an optional fellowship.

The doctor still comes out WAY ahead over their lifetime.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#153

Post by criddell »

rayiner wrote: post #93
criddell wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anything wrong with going to school for an education rather than training. Frankly, I wish there were more kids working on a liberal and fine arts education. It's one of the reasons I'm a big fan of the free-college-for-all plans being pushed by some politicians.

It’s certainly not something I want limited tax dollars to pay for, given that we still have childhood poverty and homelessness to work on.

Our economy generates enough wealth to take care of those people too.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#154

Post by dpau »

mnm1 wrote: post #114
tmpz22 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with vocational training that /r/personalfinance and similar forums trumpet is that it often points directly to manual labor which leads to severe physical decline and often injury. I hope industries such as plumbing, welding, HVAC, construction, etc. have improved and now teach best practices for safe lifting, mandatory physical therapy, and enforce them - but I don't think they do. Effectively what we'r…

Jobs that involve typing and computer use for extended periods of time will often lead to pain and health problems. It's not a quality unique to blue collar jobs.

a bit disingenuous. while all jobs have the possibility of physical injury, some are much more likely than others.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#155

Post by baron816 »

There’s some weird things about this article.

1) Their daughter likely would’ve qualified for quite a bit of financial aid, which potentially could have brought a fancy art college to within reason for her. That she never even applied to her dream schools means she will never know if they would’ve been competitively priced.

2) Collectively, student debt is $1.6T, but that doesn’t tell you much about the per graduate burden. Here’s some data: https://studentloanhero.com/student-loan-debt-statistics/. Average debt load is $30K or $7.5K per year of study (just living on that amount of money seems like a good deal). That’s is quite a bit of money, but not insurmountable. Median payment is $222/month. Also pretty feasible for most graduates, especially when inflation and wage gains are factored in.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#156

Post by btilly »

jki275 wrote: post #101
mnm1 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but you're gambling that you will survive and that you will survive intact. A life full of PTSD or without legs or arms or eyes isn't worth a million a year, let alone $60 to $125k. Then there's the very real possibility of dying. Not to mention the high risk of suicide afterwards. Given those risks, I can't see how the military is a good option.

Extremely low probability of any of those happening. Besides, military service changes you. It gives you perspective you will never get anywhere else.

I have 3 nephews who served in the military.

2 have PTSD, one severe. The one with severe PTSD also got to spend 6 months in a hospital after being shot out of the air in a conflict that we are theoretically not involved in.

Given their other options, military service might have been a good thing. But the odds of PTSD or injury are much, much higher than I would like.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#157

Post by utopian3 »

methehack wrote: post #117
scarface74 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we pay for college for an area that won’t return a positive ROI just so they can be a “better citizen of the world”?

That seems like a good reason to me, as long as the debt load isn't severe. Plus, in my experience, education enriches the everyday profoundly.

The debt load will be severe. The US doesn't have a balanced budget, has a growing deficit at all levels (federal, state, municipal), and politicians are promising "free college", when we have bigger issues (child poverty, homelessness, healthcare, DEBT)?

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#158

Post by lr4444lr »

honkycat wrote: post #98
hajile wrote: post #71

And here we have once again why the government shouldn't be subsidizing student loans and shouldn't exclude them from bankruptcy. We need to quit incentivizing sub-prime loans. Unlike the housing crash where the houses retained most of their value and could be sold later, you can't sell your degree to pay back the money. If you're getting a necessary degree, it's very uncommon to default on your loan because you'll b…

I think this trade school obsession is foolish. Everyone cargo-cults it as "pragmatic" without actually analyzing what the jobs entail and what you can actually expect to make. Statistically, you still earn way more with a degree than without. You EARN that pay in the trades, and being an electrician is dangerous. The work is hard on your body. A lot of electricians end up on disability. I wasn't very academic growin…

The trades also tend to be unionized with good workers' comp and disability pensions, though.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#160

Post by Aloha »

honkycat wrote: post #98
hajile wrote: post #71

And here we have once again why the government shouldn't be subsidizing student loans and shouldn't exclude them from bankruptcy. We need to quit incentivizing sub-prime loans. Unlike the housing crash where the houses retained most of their value and could be sold later, you can't sell your degree to pay back the money. If you're getting a necessary degree, it's very uncommon to default on your loan because you'll b…

I think this trade school obsession is foolish. Everyone cargo-cults it as "pragmatic" without actually analyzing what the jobs entail and what you can actually expect to make. Statistically, you still earn way more with a degree than without. You EARN that pay in the trades, and being an electrician is dangerous. The work is hard on your body. A lot of electricians end up on disability. I wasn't very academic growin…

> You can make that kind of money as a manager at Walmart and you do not run the risk of getting your arm fried off or falling off a telephone pole.

Yes, but we need many more trades people than managers at Wal-Mart.

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