Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

slate.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 463 posts

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#91

Post by ptmcc »

One of the best things my parents ever did for me (and themselves) was tell me, despite getting accepted, that I was not going to a fancy 40k+/yr school for undergrad.

I was angsty about it at the time, but I got over it pretty quick and now looking back appreciate how much stress and debt they saved me from.

I went to a magnet high school so there was a lot of pressure to go to a "prestigious" school, and "settling" for a public university was uncool. But of course ultimately something like 10% of my graduating class went to the local public university. I had a phenomenal time there.

I keep in touch with many folks from high school, and while some of them that went on to expensive private schools have been very successful (usually rather wealthy already), I'd say that on balance the kids who went to affordable-but-respected programs are doing better 10-15 years after graduation than the kids who went to expensive elite schools on debt.

The debt burden of those expensive schools can be truly devastating, financially and emotionally. I am seeing the long-term effects of it on my peers still after 15 years. And the costs have gotten even higher now. As a parent, one should think very very carefully about whether it is truly worth it.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#92

Post by kxyvr »

hajile wrote: post #71

And here we have once again why the government shouldn't be subsidizing student loans and shouldn't exclude them from bankruptcy. We need to quit incentivizing sub-prime loans. Unlike the housing crash where the houses retained most of their value and could be sold later, you can't sell your degree to pay back the money. If you're getting a necessary degree, it's very uncommon to default on your loan because you'll b…

I will contend that this is not the core problem, but an auxiliary one forced by the states themselves. The primary source of funding for universities is the state, which makes sense because universities rely on local infrastructure and respond to local needs. Depending on the size of the university, they can essentially be a small city within a city. At the same time, the amount of money invested in universities has dropped dramatically:

https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/a-lost-de...

In order to stay solvent as institutions, the universities raise tuition, which is then enabled by student loans. My point isn't that student loans are blameless. They certainly are. In addition, there's a lot of blame that can be levied at the universities themselves for wasteful spending, but this itself is complicated due to donations being contingent on particular projects or buildings and competition between the universities to attract students who often choose a school based on how awesome the quad is. However, at its core, if a state like Arizona reduces its per student spending by over 50%, how is university supposed to stay solvent without dramatically raising tuition?

None of this helps the family in the article. I think they did the right thing. I wish more people would hold the states accountable rather than first blaming students loans.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#93

Post by rayiner »

criddell wrote: post #54
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m pretty sympathetic to the perspective that the solution is not dealing with it. “I want to go to art school” is at the same level as “I want a pony” or “I’m gonna marry a rich girl”; it’s not originally intended as a serious life plan, and you’ll only start to see it as one if the people around you encourage it.

I don't see anything wrong with going to school for an education rather than training. Frankly, I wish there were more kids working on a liberal and fine arts education. It's one of the reasons I'm a big fan of the free-college-for-all plans being pushed by some politicians.

It’s certainly not something I want limited tax dollars to pay for, given that we still have childhood poverty and homelessness to work on.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#94

Post by justin66 »

vsskanth wrote: post #4

Serious question: how does a parent deal with their high school kids wanting to pursue college in a field with a low probability of high lifetime earnings (art, theatre etc.) ? Especially when they are middle class without generational wealth to insulate themselves

> Serious question: how does a parent deal with their high school kids wanting to pursue college in a field with a low probability of high lifetime earnings (art, theatre etc.) ?

Have them meet people in the profession, talk to them about the expense of college, and more generally help them strategize about what they'll need to do to maintain a middle class lifestyle as an artist. A middle-aged artist will be happy to share experiences and talk about money.

The other thing is to help them think about backup plans. There are plenty of jobs in art or theatre, business and technical, that don't necessary involve performing or creating art. In my experience with a theatre program in a large university, they're quite realistic about helping their students prepare for employment.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#95

Post by leetcrew »

criddell wrote: post #54
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m pretty sympathetic to the perspective that the solution is not dealing with it. “I want to go to art school” is at the same level as “I want a pony” or “I’m gonna marry a rich girl”; it’s not originally intended as a serious life plan, and you’ll only start to see it as one if the people around you encourage it.

I don't see anything wrong with going to school for an education rather than training. Frankly, I wish there were more kids working on a liberal and fine arts education. It's one of the reasons I'm a big fan of the free-college-for-all plans being pushed by some politicians.

this sounds like a really bad way to spend my tax dollars. by all means, use them to educate the next generation of teachers, social workers, and scientists, but don't make me foot the bill for some kid to study art history for four years and still need government assistance at the end.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#96

Post by Grakel »

vsskanth wrote: post #4

Serious question: how does a parent deal with their high school kids wanting to pursue college in a field with a low probability of high lifetime earnings (art, theatre etc.) ? Especially when they are middle class without generational wealth to insulate themselves

Theatre Professor here. Do not let your kids go to school for acting. Oh, he or she is perfect looking and incredibly talented? Great, they don't need a degree in acting. Go to school in New York, Chicago, or LA, and audition between classes in a real degree. Now if they want to study design and tech, go nuts. The amount of work out there is incredible, there is just so much content being consumed.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#97

Post by mnm1 »

newguy1234 wrote: post #82
hajile wrote: post #71

And here we have once again why the government shouldn't be subsidizing student loans and shouldn't exclude them from bankruptcy. We need to quit incentivizing sub-prime loans. Unlike the housing crash where the houses retained most of their value and could be sold later, you can't sell your degree to pay back the money. If you're getting a necessary degree, it's very uncommon to default on your loan because you'll b…

Military is also a good option to college, especially if your specialty is a skilled trade. My brother did this straight out of high school. Spent a few years overseas and then eventually changed his specialty to biomedical equipment repair. When he left the service he made 60k/year and after 5 years he is at 125k/year. Also when you are in the service, you are getting paid and if you are overseas, all your bills are…

Yeah, but you're gambling that you will survive and that you will survive intact. A life full of PTSD or without legs or arms or eyes isn't worth a million a year, let alone $60 to $125k. Then there's the very real possibility of dying. Not to mention the high risk of suicide afterwards.

Given those risks, I can't see how the military is a good option.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#98

Post by honkycat »

hajile wrote: post #71

And here we have once again why the government shouldn't be subsidizing student loans and shouldn't exclude them from bankruptcy. We need to quit incentivizing sub-prime loans. Unlike the housing crash where the houses retained most of their value and could be sold later, you can't sell your degree to pay back the money. If you're getting a necessary degree, it's very uncommon to default on your loan because you'll b…

I think this trade school obsession is foolish. Everyone cargo-cults it as "pragmatic" without actually analyzing what the jobs entail and what you can actually expect to make.

Statistically, you still earn way more with a degree than without.

You EARN that pay in the trades, and being an electrician is dangerous. The work is hard on your body. A lot of electricians end up on disability.

I wasn't very academic growing up. But then I grew up, and now I am a pretty successful computer programmer making a lot more than that, for way better perks and less dangerous, damaging work.

You can make that kind of money as a manager at Walmart and you do not run the risk of getting your arm fried off or falling off a telephone pole.

And where does a few years as an electrician leave you if you don't end up liking the career? "Sorry son, the internet told me trades were a good idea. Maybe go back to school now that you are an adult with a family?" Part of the reason you go to school as a young person is that you do not have a family to feed or a house to pay off.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#99

Post by xwdv »

TomVDB wrote: post #51
xwdv wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happens to parents that don’t discuss the importance of having money in life. Also happens when kids get little to no financial education. The kids grow up thinking pursuing your passions and dreams is more important than accumulating money. And it feels so good and right until you find yourself broke and poor and your passion is gone, and you think life just sucks. It takes no effort to throw down a spreadsheet…

Your first paragraph is absolutist, judgemental, and, frankly, very naive. Our household has very open finances. We have dinner table talks about dollar cost averaging, compounded growth, and investing in broad mutual funds. Kids have a bank account with debit card at 14, and a personal Vanguard account at 18, as well as a Roth IRA in which we match their taxable earnings. And the kids know that making money is hard:…

Well then I just hope that youngster is also prepared to find some creative ways to make money.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#100

Post by smnrchrds »

david38 wrote: post #88
hajile wrote: post #71

And here we have once again why the government shouldn't be subsidizing student loans and shouldn't exclude them from bankruptcy. We need to quit incentivizing sub-prime loans. Unlike the housing crash where the houses retained most of their value and could be sold later, you can't sell your degree to pay back the money. If you're getting a necessary degree, it's very uncommon to default on your loan because you'll b…

This. Pushing college the way we do helps to stigmatize the trades. Why don’t we push the trades? We give the impression they are “lesser”.

I have a feeling that trades are paying well because a generation of pushing people away from trades has created a shortage. Now that people are rediscovering this career path and just do trades is becoming (and in some circles has become) the new de facto advice, the generation who all go to trades will have the same issues as the generation who all went to college: stagnating wages, insufficient opportunities, increasing difficulty of getting your foot in the door, etc.

Trades aren't easier to get in and better paid because of their inherent characteristics. The supply and demand in the market has made them so. The new generation of advice is going to change the supply side. I am not sure if the advice is going to be valid for the rest of a young person's career should they choose this path. We have already done this once before with just go to college.

Post reply on HN