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I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

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Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#81

Post by ArmandGrillet »

toolslive wrote: post #11

What I don't understand is: why don't they go to a university in Europe? I just checked for my alma mater: tuition fee is ~500 euro for 1 year. You pay about 4k in rent per year (this is probably too high an estimate). The level of education is high, and the programs are available in English.

List of probable truths when studying in Europe as an American at 18:

- You've never left home for more than a month.

- There will be few (if any) Americans in a European bachelor's program.

- There is a 6 to 9 hours timezone difference with home.

- You don't have an easy time getting information compared to with American universities.

- The country will not speak English (UK aside). I know they speak english in French and German unis but your landlord probably won't, nor your health insurer.

That's a massive list of stress-inducing elements you have to take into account. For a master/PhD the situation is totally different but it's still not that easy (source: did an international master programme).

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#82

Post by newguy1234 »

hajile wrote: post #71

And here we have once again why the government shouldn't be subsidizing student loans and shouldn't exclude them from bankruptcy. We need to quit incentivizing sub-prime loans. Unlike the housing crash where the houses retained most of their value and could be sold later, you can't sell your degree to pay back the money. If you're getting a necessary degree, it's very uncommon to default on your loan because you'll b…

Military is also a good option to college, especially if your specialty is a skilled trade. My brother did this straight out of high school. Spent a few years overseas and then eventually changed his specialty to biomedical equipment repair. When he left the service he made 60k/year and after 5 years he is at 125k/year. Also when you are in the service, you are getting paid and if you are overseas, all your bills are paid too.

He never had any student loans ever or school expenses. When he was young he just saved most of his money....most of which has doubled or tripled in value due to how good the stock market has been.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#83

Post by justin66 »

abnry wrote: post #40
rayiner wrote: post #16

These parents are heroes. > A couple months ago, my 17-year-old daughter’s guidance counselor called her into his office to ask pretty much the only question that adults ask high school seniors: “What colleges are you applying to?” When Ella tossed off a handful of universities, he said, “Have you thought about going to art school?” This is goddamn malpractice. > Like most parents, who save on average $18,000 for the…

There is a place for encouraging students to go to art school... the catch is that they need to have obvious signs of world class talent.

> There is a place for encouraging students to go to art school... the catch is that they need to have obvious signs of world class talent.

Maybe, but you have to be careful with this kind of thinking. I know a couple of really gifted guys with degrees from Berklee College of Music who still have student loans to pay off. The truth is, world class musicians working good jobs still take considerable time to pay off loans that big. It's not a high-paying profession.

There's a category of artist, the superstars, who don't have these sorts of problems but its population is vanishingly small.

On the other hand, the guys I'm talking about don't really question the value of their excellent education. It's not all about money for some people, which is good. It's just wise to know what you're getting into.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#84

Post by [deleted] »

abnry wrote: post #40
rayiner wrote: post #16

These parents are heroes. > A couple months ago, my 17-year-old daughter’s guidance counselor called her into his office to ask pretty much the only question that adults ask high school seniors: “What colleges are you applying to?” When Ella tossed off a handful of universities, he said, “Have you thought about going to art school?” This is goddamn malpractice. > Like most parents, who save on average $18,000 for the…

There is a place for encouraging students to go to art school... the catch is that they need to have obvious signs of world class talent.

[deleted]

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#85

Post by penagwin »

hajile wrote: post #71

And here we have once again why the government shouldn't be subsidizing student loans and shouldn't exclude them from bankruptcy. We need to quit incentivizing sub-prime loans. Unlike the housing crash where the houses retained most of their value and could be sold later, you can't sell your degree to pay back the money. If you're getting a necessary degree, it's very uncommon to default on your loan because you'll b…

I struggled with college and don't know if I'll be returning... I made it over a third of the way to a CS degree but had to take a break from school.

I got a job while in college as a programmer - and work full time making around the 50k range. I feel that I self taught myself the necessary technical skills for my job, and that the biggest places for self improvement aren't acedimic but business/relationship related.

I have less then 5k in school debt left, and I already have the job I wanted, my only fear is when I eventually look for a new job, how well they'll consider me without a degree. I strongly feel my technical skills are at least up to par, meanwhile in school I watched classmates copy answers off YouTube...

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#86

Post by allovernow »

rayiner wrote: post #16

These parents are heroes. > A couple months ago, my 17-year-old daughter’s guidance counselor called her into his office to ask pretty much the only question that adults ask high school seniors: “What colleges are you applying to?” When Ella tossed off a handful of universities, he said, “Have you thought about going to art school?” This is goddamn malpractice. > Like most parents, who save on average $18,000 for the…

Generally is say the post-secondary education institution in the U.S. is riding on the laurels of decades past. College use to have a higher bar to entry - standards were higher and the commitment was stronger, and kids of college age were on average more mature. Now that the experience has been wholly commercialized, children who have no business in higher learning are encouraged by the secondary effects of an at one time well meaning propaganda campaign to take on debts they are unlikely to benefit from even in majors which are clearly useless to both individuals and society at large.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#87

Post by leetcrew »

vsskanth wrote: post #4

Serious question: how does a parent deal with their high school kids wanting to pursue college in a field with a low probability of high lifetime earnings (art, theatre etc.) ? Especially when they are middle class without generational wealth to insulate themselves

how about putting together a realistic budget for after they graduate? go tour some apartments and ask them to pick one they could see themselves living in. build a budget around the rent for that place, estimated utilities, going out with friends, etc. also add the monthly loan payment for the art school they want to go to. then compare that against typical monthly take-home pay for someone in their desired field and start cutting things until they can break even. $30-40k annual income can sound like a lot to a high school student until you start breaking it down month by month and force them to confront how expensive things are and the lifestyle sacrifices they will have to make.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#88

Post by david38 »

hajile wrote: post #71

And here we have once again why the government shouldn't be subsidizing student loans and shouldn't exclude them from bankruptcy. We need to quit incentivizing sub-prime loans. Unlike the housing crash where the houses retained most of their value and could be sold later, you can't sell your degree to pay back the money. If you're getting a necessary degree, it's very uncommon to default on your loan because you'll b…

This.

Pushing college the way we do helps to stigmatize the trades. Why don’t we push the trades? We give the impression they are “lesser”.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#89

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

criddell wrote: post #54
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m pretty sympathetic to the perspective that the solution is not dealing with it. “I want to go to art school” is at the same level as “I want a pony” or “I’m gonna marry a rich girl”; it’s not originally intended as a serious life plan, and you’ll only start to see it as one if the people around you encourage it.

I don't see anything wrong with going to school for an education rather than training. Frankly, I wish there were more kids working on a liberal and fine arts education. It's one of the reasons I'm a big fan of the free-college-for-all plans being pushed by some politicians.

I don't see anything wrong with it either. I think it's a great thing that American doctors and engineers still get a liberal arts education, and it'd be wonderful if nobody in the US ever felt like finances were stopping them from getting the education they want.

But that's different than having a plan for your life. Most kids can't afford to wait until after college to start planning.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#90

Post by david38 »

vsskanth wrote: post #4

Serious question: how does a parent deal with their high school kids wanting to pursue college in a field with a low probability of high lifetime earnings (art, theatre etc.) ? Especially when they are middle class without generational wealth to insulate themselves

Just say you won’t pay for it.

Show them the numbers, what it costs, what it pays, and say you aren’t rich enough to study a hobby. You need to study something you can support yourself with.

They can always go off on their own and do it. At that point, they are adults and you’re done your best.

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