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I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

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Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#51

Post by TomVDB »

xwdv wrote: post #14
vsskanth wrote: post #4

Serious question: how does a parent deal with their high school kids wanting to pursue college in a field with a low probability of high lifetime earnings (art, theatre etc.) ? Especially when they are middle class without generational wealth to insulate themselves

This happens to parents that don’t discuss the importance of having money in life. Also happens when kids get little to no financial education. The kids grow up thinking pursuing your passions and dreams is more important than accumulating money. And it feels so good and right until you find yourself broke and poor and your passion is gone, and you think life just sucks. It takes no effort to throw down a spreadsheet…

Your first paragraph is absolutist, judgemental, and, frankly, very naive.

Our household has very open finances. We have dinner table talks about dollar cost averaging, compounded growth, and investing in broad mutual funds.

Kids have a bank account with debit card at 14, and a personal Vanguard account at 18, as well as a Roth IRA in which we match their taxable earnings.

And the kids know that making money is hard: they tutor, they create their own Kickstarter campaigns, they work as a cashier for extras.

They know how to make a budget and what things cost.

But no amount of your discussion or financial education is going change the mind of a very determined, strong headed youngster who “doesn’t want to live in the bubble of Silicon Valley anyway” and wants to pursue a non-technical creative course of live.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#52

Post by vidanay »

nugget wrote: post #45
refurb wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors and lawyers could afford a house in Malibu and they are wage workers.

The white collar professionals who can afford these types of areas are usually much more like entrepreneurs than individual practitioners of their craft.

And they have a relevant education.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#53

Post by ceejayoz »

sct202 wrote: post #7

I think it can be a disservice to apply to so few schools on the presumption that you won't get aid or scholarships. I applied to only 3 schools and still slightly regret not applying to more, since I thought 2 of schools were going to toss my application into the trash but didn't. Lots of schools offer a lot of scholarships that the parents and the kids may not be aware of. I was very surprised by my offers, and I'm…

Some of the more expensive colleges rely on the psychological impact of "oh wow, they're offering a five figure discount!" to overcome resistance. I went to a school that's was $36k/year (now $60k); they had a $10k "merit" scholarship for a SAT/ACT score threshold that anyone eligible to attend would've qualified for.

I wound up transferring to the local community college (for a tenth of the cost) for a year, and had quite a few of the same professors who'd adjunct there for a bit of side income.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#54

Post by criddell »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #34
vsskanth wrote: post #4

Serious question: how does a parent deal with their high school kids wanting to pursue college in a field with a low probability of high lifetime earnings (art, theatre etc.) ? Especially when they are middle class without generational wealth to insulate themselves

I’m pretty sympathetic to the perspective that the solution is not dealing with it. “I want to go to art school” is at the same level as “I want a pony” or “I’m gonna marry a rich girl”; it’s not originally intended as a serious life plan, and you’ll only start to see it as one if the people around you encourage it.

I don't see anything wrong with going to school for an education rather than training. Frankly, I wish there were more kids working on a liberal and fine arts education. It's one of the reasons I'm a big fan of the free-college-for-all plans being pushed by some politicians.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#55

Post by wainstead »

wavefunction wrote: post #9
danharaj wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask them to double major?

Or pick up a trade instead of a second degree. I think it might be easier to structure time for your artistic passions with a trade day job than a white-collar day job but I might be biased by on-call duty.

Actually, this is excellent advice. Many of the people I know who went through art programs and hung out in the art scene later applied their aesthetics to things like the construction trade (fashioning complex plaster jobs, painting) or started some kind of small time manufacturing.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#56

Post by akhilcacharya »

helen___keller wrote: post #20

The author briefly transitions from arts schools to engineering schools which- in my opinion- are a totally different beast. If you graduate with 30k-50k in debt and a six figure salary then it's not too bad

But..you can get a six figure salary with an in-state public school too.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#57

Post by falcolas »

abnry wrote: post #40
rayiner wrote: post #16

These parents are heroes. > A couple months ago, my 17-year-old daughter’s guidance counselor called her into his office to ask pretty much the only question that adults ask high school seniors: “What colleges are you applying to?” When Ella tossed off a handful of universities, he said, “Have you thought about going to art school?” This is goddamn malpractice. > Like most parents, who save on average $18,000 for the…

There is a place for encouraging students to go to art school... the catch is that they need to have obvious signs of world class talent.

The world we live in is capable of providing a living wage to artists (and writers, and sculptors, etc.). It’s not common, and its not always the most comfortable living, but it exists.

Pixar, Riot Games, Marvel, and XKCD would not exist without full time artists (even those with above-average-but-not-world-class talent).

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#58

Post by pen2l »

rayiner wrote: post #16

These parents are heroes. > A couple months ago, my 17-year-old daughter’s guidance counselor called her into his office to ask pretty much the only question that adults ask high school seniors: “What colleges are you applying to?” When Ella tossed off a handful of universities, he said, “Have you thought about going to art school?” This is goddamn malpractice. > Like most parents, who save on average $18,000 for the…

I recall you have two children -- do you teach them as such?

I ask for a particular reason: I think you're easily one of the smartest guys in this forum, and your children are likely to be similarly smart.

So, there are two games out there for us to play -- 1) as you say, the HVAC technicians and roofers who actually make a pretty comfortable salary and 2) the uber smarts, the googlers and the founders. Even a liberal arts degree from a big name A-tier school is worth it for them, for the connections they'll make and the prestige they'll be set with for all of their life. So 2 is actually a pretty good bet. And it's why I encourage my nieces (who seem very smart) to do the whole college acceptance dance (learn to play piano, do some sports, and everything else to secure a ticket to Harvard) and the rest is easy. Don't you do the same with your kids?

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#59

Post by will4274 »

> One friend recently told me that her son has his heart set on a pricey out-of-state engineering program, despite the fact that a fantastic engineering program exists at the public university in our town. “It’s a reach school, but if he gets in he’ll probably go there—and I guess deal with a lot of student loan debt afterward,” she said with a laugh.

I don't understand this from the article. I went to a pricey out-of-state engineering school, took out significant loans, got a good engineering job, and paid them off in less than 5 years. Taking out loans to obtain a fancy degree in a low paying profession isn't the same as taking out loans to obtain fancy degrees in a high paying profession, but the article gives them similar treatment.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#60

Post by HarryHirsch »

helen___keller wrote: post #41
toolslive wrote: post #11

What I don't understand is: why don't they go to a university in Europe? I just checked for my alma mater: tuition fee is ~500 euro for 1 year. You pay about 4k in rent per year (this is probably too high an estimate). The level of education is high, and the programs are available in English.

They don't market nearly as effectively. They don't appear on rankings for top colleges. They don't send leaflets and no one you know goes there. The only European Uni I knew was oxford, and I had no idea that I could save money on a similar education in Europe. In the first place I just assumed I would need to know a foreign language for any non-UK European school.

They don't market nearly as effectively

Heh, yes. A long time ago there was this guide aimed at foreign students coming to study in the US. They had a warning: if the school pitches itself at foreigners it does not have sufficient domestic students. The prospective customer should ponder long and hard about the motive of the place.

(The motive may not always be nefarious. Back then, the Classics departments of Oxford and Cambridge did pitch themselves at German school leavers because in England Latin instruction was plainly worthless. In Germany it was actually at an adequate level.)

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