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EU beckons Indian tech talent

economictimes.indiatimes.com

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Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#191

Post by bg117 »

mkbkn wrote: post #189
throwno wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich to hear Indians feeling entitled to EU immigration when the Indians just happily passed a law against Muslim immigration. Letting poor muslims compete with you on fair terms does not increase inequality. It undermines your position of power.

> when the Indians just happily passed a law against Muslim immigration That's because of the current Fascists govt who is hell bent on copying 1984, China & Nazis. Most Indians do not support this law.

Most? Any data to backup?

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#192

Post by timwaagh »

terminaljunkid wrote: post #172
timwaagh wrote: post #11

it's kinda sad european programmers get pushed out of entry level positions by typically more experienced indians willing to work for some premium above indian wage. this ensures programming is not a very well paid job in west europe. europe has problems in the education system which makes sure people only start programming after college further putting eu workers at a disadvantage versus indians and russians. which…

I see you have very high opinion about India's engineering education. Being an Indian CSE undergrad student at one of 'top' colleges, I'd say it is crap unless you climb the ladder on your own. 1. Till 10th grade you are not likely to know anything about programming 2. In 11th and 12th there is huge competition for getting into medical / engineering colleges. You study physics - chemistry - mathematics for acing that…

What I mean is that Indians typically will actually study for CS. Most European programmers get into it as a second choice. This is because people are taught to follow their heart without consideration for the labor market. Indians typically graduate in time. Europeans don't because the education they are getting is supposed to select suitable candidates for research and people are encouraged to do all kinds of things outside of class. That's why an Indian programmer age thirty might have ten years of job experience. A European might have five years and a difficult route to start. It has little to do with the quality of education.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#193

Post by nine_zeros »

elfexec wrote: post #58
Mvandenbergh wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic, the US has many unemployed people and many, many people earning low wages in low productivity industries. Why not just train them properly rather than import workers from elsewhere?

I agree. I don't think we should be importing any workers. We have 330 million people and that should be plenty. Importing workers disincentivizes US elites from developing our own local work force. And importing workers hurts the nation that is losing workers. Shouldn't all the indian tech workers be used in india to help india develop? Isn't it morally wrong for a wealthy nation like the US ( or wealthy political e…

Wow, 330 million cannot work today. I would recommend finding out how many adult individuals are there in the labor force. Do the same for EU.

You'll soon realize there just aren't enough to support so many industries.

I can speak for the US about how labor shortage affects every one. US has the craziest doctor residency programs. This ultimately causes a massive massive shortage of doctors. This affects society in unbelievable ways. There are so many people who could've done so much more, but can't do so because they need specialized treatment. The doctors for these aren't available quickly enough. By the time doctors are available and treatment is done, these folks are defeated and depleted mentally and financially.

How did the artificial shortage work out?

Same applies for a lot of industries. If you want to work in ALL the industries, you need the best in ALL the industries and 500 million (which is aging rapidly) won't cut it at all. Especially when you are competing with China.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#194

Post by olgeni »

mcv wrote: post #180
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. If that was the case, birthrates wouldn't be so low in Europe. Free school and healthcare doesn't support your family when rents are higher than ever and fewer people than ever can afford to buy a property to raise a family in.

Low birthrate isn't caused by high rent, but by a highly educated population and an economic system where kids aren't necessary to take care of you when you get old.

“and an economic system where kids aren't necessary to take care of you when you get old.”

Until you get terminal cancer and you are sent home to die. Then, I assure, a “kid” might be useful, because nobody else will give a flying fuck.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#196

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

finolex1 wrote: post #162
mk89 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But no, you want more. You want luxury life, you want to keep the rest of the world underneath you. Why does wanting more imply having people underneath you? Your comment is full of frustration, hatred and anger, it doesn't have any argument in it. I hope you can see that. The main issue stems from the fact that Europeans have a different lifestyle, therefore, moving forward for them implies having actually higher…

> however, as a local citizen wishing to improve my country and the average income, why would I care about people coming from other countries? I mean, what do I get in return? The main point of contention is not about whether this would improve the quality of life of the average EU programmer. It is about concealing what is just naked self-interest (i.e. concern about one's own wages) with noble talk of 'inequality'.…

What's wrong with self interest and protectionism?

My family comes first.

I don't want to be part in the salary race to the bottom for the sake of lower prices and consumerism.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#197

Post by ben_w »

tluyben2 wrote: post #97
Vesuvium wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech companies cluster in big cities, which are expensive. 50k in a small town is lots, 50k in London or Amsterdam is pocket money.

Yeah, so the EU should focus more on stimulating remote work instead of stuffing cities like the rest of the world.

If we can figure out how to make remote work successful in general rather than in a few headline-grabbing examples, everyone here will be directly competing with people whose annual rent is less than your monthly rent.

That’ll be great for the world, but not for us — it’ll make this argument about €50k/year salaries depressing our wages seem bizarre to future generations.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#198

Post by rolltiide »

inertiatic wrote: post #104
Isinlor wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as it increases the inequality Really?! Speaking about inequality is so hypocritical in this context that it just boils my blood. I could understand if you were having trouble to earn a living. But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! And happily, and stress free. Your kids will get free education, free collage. You will get tons of vacations, 38 hours work week. But no, you want more. Yo…

>But you can easily live in the Western Europe on even €30k. EASILY! I have trouble supporting a child in Greece, with a gross household income of around 50k. I most certainly do not lead a luxurious life. I shudder to think how this would work out in Western Europe where rents are even higher than the ~500 euro most people pay here for a medium sized apartment.

Portugal is also Western Europe, its pretty cheap

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#199

Post by nine_zeros »

huffmsa wrote: post #131

Oh Europe, pillaged the natural resources of India for centuries. Now you're stealing it's best and brightest for your own gain. Never change.

They are literally following SVs playbook. If you ever go to SV, you would know how the US tech industry is almost entirely immigrants or first generation kids. If EU continues down this path, in 10 years, EU has a chance of remaining relevant in the world.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#200

Post by rolltiide »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #16

I wish EU work visa restrictions would be as high as the US ones. Tech salaries in Western Europe are low enough as it is and the whole developer shortage the employers keep crying about to the media is a scam to justify lax visa restrictions for cheaper workforce from abroad. Under current conditions EU companies can hire pretty much anyone across the globe. Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if t…

I’m glad EU visa standards are super low. But for me thats just for access, European salaries are unattractive.

Outside of the EU but still Schengen area, tech hubs like Zug, Switzerland pay just as much as Silicon Valley, without massive federal income taxes all while the neighboring Eurozone is super cheap. State tax in Zug is like 7%

I’d never leave the sauna clubs!

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