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EU beckons Indian tech talent

economictimes.indiatimes.com

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Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#51

Post by _pmf_ »

simula67 wrote: post #46
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #16

I wish EU work visa restrictions would be as high as the US ones. Tech salaries in Western Europe are low enough as it is and the whole developer shortage the employers keep crying about to the media is a scam to justify lax visa restrictions for cheaper workforce from abroad. Under current conditions EU companies can hire pretty much anyone across the globe. Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if t…

Salaries may not improve in Europe even if Visa restrictions are tightened, companies may set up offices in countries where wages are lower. I think the reason that western countries encourage high skill immigration is because it creates additional jobs to service the new workers: every new software engineer will need restaurants, cars, etc. These jobs can go to locals. Also, the taxes paid will go to the western gov…

> every new software engineer will need restaurants, cars, etc. These jobs can go to locals.

That's the most absurd thing I read today.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#52

Post by blue_box »

rrrazdan wrote: post #32

A counterpoint to the article. As a founder in India we have recently started thinking about hiring people from EU, especially the eastern part. If however the criteria and salary for a good programmer is EUR 42k pa as a comment below suggests, you can earn decently more than that at multiple companies, including mine.

Can you live in India like you live in EU?

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#53

Post by samsonradu »

blue_box wrote: post #41
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends what your family can provide you and what your goals in life are. If you're set to inherit properties/money from your parents or you're ok with being a renter for life at the mercy of your landlord then any salary in Europe is fine . If you have to buy a property on your own where you could raise a family in then salaries are far from fine. Anytime I her someone in Western Europe say salaries are fine and shr…

you can get a mortgage credit with a really low interest rate. If you have a family, your rent probably will be higher than your mortgage payment. (5% rule) so without earning a high salary, you can still buy a house.

> You can still buy a house

Read `take a 30y mortgage` with plenty of downside risk is quite a low bar for one of the best paying industries in the world.

The disconnect between salaries and the housing market in western EU is pretty much at an all-time high. If these are the expectations for tech salaries then how about the rest of the (middle-class) workforce?

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#54

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

mping wrote: post #39
zerr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we follow that route, Spanish, Portuguese or Italians shouldn't be allowed to work in Germany... Germans shouldn't be allowed to work in Switzerland, etc... Also, there are plenty of 50K-70K tech jobs in US - not everyone works in FAANG or lives in Bay Area.

Besides, in tech, most of the time you get what you payed for. So if you lowball you will probably get low talent. This is a global market, so you can also grab US jobs for half the pay and make alot of money anyway.

Depends, my ex employer got a really good deal on some workers from China who are working like crazy even on overtime, being grateful to just be in Europe even on below market salaries so it worked for him hence his focus to just recruit from there exclusively.

Most tech companies already have enough thinkers, to scale fast they just need more doers that execute orders quickly without rocking the boat or challenging the status quo.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#55

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

samsonradu wrote: post #53
blue_box wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can get a mortgage credit with a really low interest rate. If you have a family, your rent probably will be higher than your mortgage payment. (5% rule) so without earning a high salary, you can still buy a house.

> You can still buy a house Read `take a 30y mortgage` with plenty of downside risk is quite a low bar for one of the best paying industries in the world. The disconnect between salaries and the housing market in western EU is pretty much at an all-time high. If these are the expectations for tech salaries then how about the rest of the (middle-class) workforce?

Don't know why you're being downvoted. If people would look at the property prices in German cities for example they'd get it. Unless you and your partner are very high earners you're priced out of buying anything family worthy in all cities with tech jobs.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#56

Post by negamax »

_pmf_ wrote: post #51
simula67 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salaries may not improve in Europe even if Visa restrictions are tightened, companies may set up offices in countries where wages are lower. I think the reason that western countries encourage high skill immigration is because it creates additional jobs to service the new workers: every new software engineer will need restaurants, cars, etc. These jobs can go to locals. Also, the taxes paid will go to the western gov…

> every new software engineer will need restaurants, cars, etc. These jobs can go to locals. That's the most absurd thing I read today.

Of course they spend in the local markets and pay taxes. No?

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#57

Post by hos234 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #40
zerr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we follow that route, Spanish, Portuguese or Italians shouldn't be allowed to work in Germany... Germans shouldn't be allowed to work in Switzerland, etc... Also, there are plenty of 50K-70K tech jobs in US - not everyone works in FAANG or lives in Bay Area.

You're not correct. EU citizens should be allowed to work anywhere in EU member states. That's fine, it's one of the founding principles of EU membership. The problem is when EU companies have virtually no restrictions on hiring people outside the EU putting even more downward pressure on local salaries in high COL areas.

Companies will outsource, move development centers elsewhere etc etc. Visa restrictions alone aren't going to save anyones job. The world is too competitive.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#58

Post by elfexec »

Mvandenbergh wrote: post #47
elfexec wrote: post #43

The EU has over 500 million people in a landmass that is less than half the size of the US. Does the EU really need to import workers from overseas given how overpopulated it is relative to its landmass size? If the EU was the size of the US, it's population would be 1.2 billion people. Similar to china and india. Why aren't they able to find the workers locally? Is it poor planning? Did they not train enough tech wo…

By that logic, the US has many unemployed people and many, many people earning low wages in low productivity industries. Why not just train them properly rather than import workers from elsewhere?

I agree. I don't think we should be importing any workers. We have 330 million people and that should be plenty. Importing workers disincentivizes US elites from developing our own local work force. And importing workers hurts the nation that is losing workers. Shouldn't all the indian tech workers be used in india to help india develop? Isn't it morally wrong for a wealthy nation like the US ( or wealthy political entity like the EU ) to leech indian workers since it hurts india? I keep hearing that "brain drain" is a bad thing by the media. And yet, the media celebrates brain drain when it comes to india, china, etc. Why?

And if I think the US has enough people to fill its workforce needs, then it applies even more to the EU since the EU has 200 million more people in a much smaller space.

Instead of bringing in foreign workers, shouldn't the EU be asking why it can't fill the jobs from 500+ million people? Don't you think 500 million people is a big enough pool from which to draw your workforce?

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#59

Post by raverbashing »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #16

I wish EU work visa restrictions would be as high as the US ones. Tech salaries in Western Europe are low enough as it is and the whole developer shortage the employers keep crying about to the media is a scam to justify lax visa restrictions for cheaper workforce from abroad. Under current conditions EU companies can hire pretty much anyone across the globe. Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if t…

I don't think it should be as hard as the US, but then again, there's endless abuse from the consulting companies there, and I believe that the salary floor, while it could be higher, goes a good way in curbing the abuse (in the EU)

I also think companies act naively in hiring, thinking it's just a matter of bringing people to fill seats (which might make sense for the "consulting companies"), also that cultural differences are easy to deal with (that goes both ways and it can either be good or bad)

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#60

Post by [deleted] »

hos234 wrote: post #57
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not correct. EU citizens should be allowed to work anywhere in EU member states. That's fine, it's one of the founding principles of EU membership. The problem is when EU companies have virtually no restrictions on hiring people outside the EU putting even more downward pressure on local salaries in high COL areas.

Companies will outsource, move development centers elsewhere etc etc. Visa restrictions alone aren't going to save anyones job. The world is too competitive.

[deleted]
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