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EU beckons Indian tech talent

economictimes.indiatimes.com

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Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#41

Post by blue_box »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #30
blue_box wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, people who come from abroad have some effect on the salaries but I think the main reason is that life quality is really high in Europe (especially in Germany) so employees don't negotiate properly for their salary. When I talk with my colleagues, most of them are saying that the money that they earn is enough, there is no reason to ask for more. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Depends what your family can provide you and what your goals in life are. If you're set to inherit properties/money from your parents or you're ok with being a renter for life at the mercy of your landlord then any salary in Europe is fine . If you have to buy a property on your own where you could raise a family in then salaries are far from fine. Anytime I her someone in Western Europe say salaries are fine and shr…

you can get a mortgage credit with a really low interest rate. If you have a family, your rent probably will be higher than your mortgage payment. (5% rule) so without earning a high salary, you can still buy a house.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#42

Post by goatinaboat »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #14
blue_box wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the first job, people are accepting this level salaries but after 21 months (if you have B1 level German otherwise 33 months), you can get a permenant resident permit. At that point, a lot of people change their job and find a company which pays better salaries.

Yes, but the damage has already been done. It pushed more people on the job market exerting downward pressure on salaries.

It destroys entry-level jobs. Long gone are the days that someone could start on the helpdesk or in the QA department and work their way up into a sysadmin or a programmer. Those jobs all have been outsourced and offshored. This most hurts people who have the talent but not the formal qualifications. It is a total betrayal of social mobility by EU governments.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#43

Post by elfexec »

The EU has over 500 million people in a landmass that is less than half the size of the US. Does the EU really need to import workers from overseas given how overpopulated it is relative to its landmass size? If the EU was the size of the US, it's population would be 1.2 billion people. Similar to china and india. Why aren't they able to find the workers locally? Is it poor planning? Did they not train enough tech workers? Just doesn't make sense.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#44

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

anovikov wrote: post #38
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #16

I wish EU work visa restrictions would be as high as the US ones. Tech salaries in Western Europe are low enough as it is and the whole developer shortage the employers keep crying about to the media is a scam to justify lax visa restrictions for cheaper workforce from abroad. Under current conditions EU companies can hire pretty much anyone across the globe. Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if t…

Problem is, there is internal migration in Europe which you can't possibly close this way. Romania is as poor as China and has better tech talent speaking European languages a lot better. No amount of visa restrictions will protect you from that. "hire pretty much anyone across the globe" - well only if you are prepared to pay 1.5x average salary in your country (Blue Card), so not for cheap positions, will start fro…

Romania or Eastern Europe is not the reason tech salaries are low in Europe as the country may be poor but tech workers there make almost as much as their counterparts in western Europe due to low taxes and high competition for talent. A Romanian tech grad can make €2k NET salary out of University which factoring the low COL is one of the reasons very few chose to migrate west nowadays.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#45

Post by watt »

blue_box wrote: post #20
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #16

I wish EU work visa restrictions would be as high as the US ones. Tech salaries in Western Europe are low enough as it is and the whole developer shortage the employers keep crying about to the media is a scam to justify lax visa restrictions for cheaper workforce from abroad. Under current conditions EU companies can hire pretty much anyone across the globe. Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if t…

Of course, people who come from abroad have some effect on the salaries but I think the main reason is that life quality is really high in Europe (especially in Germany) so employees don't negotiate properly for their salary. When I talk with my colleagues, most of them are saying that the money that they earn is enough, there is no reason to ask for more. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There might be also a thing where we see how it plays out in Switzerland and Norway where salaries are very high indeed, but your money does not go nearly as far.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#46

Post by simula67 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #16

I wish EU work visa restrictions would be as high as the US ones. Tech salaries in Western Europe are low enough as it is and the whole developer shortage the employers keep crying about to the media is a scam to justify lax visa restrictions for cheaper workforce from abroad. Under current conditions EU companies can hire pretty much anyone across the globe. Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if t…

Salaries may not improve in Europe even if Visa restrictions are tightened, companies may set up offices in countries where wages are lower. I think the reason that western countries encourage high skill immigration is because it creates additional jobs to service the new workers: every new software engineer will need restaurants, cars, etc. These jobs can go to locals. Also, the taxes paid will go to the western governments to improve services for westerners.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#47

Post by Mvandenbergh »

elfexec wrote: post #43

The EU has over 500 million people in a landmass that is less than half the size of the US. Does the EU really need to import workers from overseas given how overpopulated it is relative to its landmass size? If the EU was the size of the US, it's population would be 1.2 billion people. Similar to china and india. Why aren't they able to find the workers locally? Is it poor planning? Did they not train enough tech wo…

By that logic, the US has many unemployed people and many, many people earning low wages in low productivity industries. Why not just train them properly rather than import workers from elsewhere?

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#48

Post by timwaagh »

scribu wrote: post #23
timwaagh wrote: post #11

it's kinda sad european programmers get pushed out of entry level positions by typically more experienced indians willing to work for some premium above indian wage. this ensures programming is not a very well paid job in west europe. europe has problems in the education system which makes sure people only start programming after college further putting eu workers at a disadvantage versus indians and russians. which…

> europe has problems in the education system which makes sure people only start programming after college further In Romania (Eastern Europe) you can start to learn programming from high school. Not sure what it's like in Western Europe.

yes, not having information science in high school is one issue. unfortunately, it's only where the list of problems starts.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#49

Post by blue_box »

watt wrote: post #45
blue_box wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, people who come from abroad have some effect on the salaries but I think the main reason is that life quality is really high in Europe (especially in Germany) so employees don't negotiate properly for their salary. When I talk with my colleagues, most of them are saying that the money that they earn is enough, there is no reason to ask for more. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There might be also a thing where we see how it plays out in Switzerland and Norway where salaries are very high indeed, but your money does not go nearly as far.

That's the reason why people work for a company in Switzerland and live in Germany.

Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent

#50

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

simula67 wrote: post #46
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #16

I wish EU work visa restrictions would be as high as the US ones. Tech salaries in Western Europe are low enough as it is and the whole developer shortage the employers keep crying about to the media is a scam to justify lax visa restrictions for cheaper workforce from abroad. Under current conditions EU companies can hire pretty much anyone across the globe. Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if t…

Salaries may not improve in Europe even if Visa restrictions are tightened, companies may set up offices in countries where wages are lower. I think the reason that western countries encourage high skill immigration is because it creates additional jobs to service the new workers: every new software engineer will need restaurants, cars, etc. These jobs can go to locals. Also, the taxes paid will go to the western gov…

EU companies rarely set up shop abroad since the culture here, driven by the lack of a common language like English prefers cultural similarly and physical proximity. That's why German companies prefer to do business with Swiss and Austrian companies and vice versa or how Norwegian companies prefer Danish or Swedish firms for example.

And if they do outsource something abroad it's usually nothing exciting, so local salaries should not dive.

For example, Microsoft has offices in Eastern Europe and India as well yet Seattle workers still make a killing.

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