Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#451

Post by blauditore » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:25 PM UTC

dangus wrote: post #438

There's a point where a device's insane amount of computational capability has to be balanced with usability given its available inputs. I definitely agree with the general idea of the article, but, on the other hand, a typical non-technical user doesn't have to know every little nuance of the system to use it effectively. The original iPhone didn't do 10% of what smartphones are capable of now. It couldn't install a…

>There's a point where a device's insane amount of computational capability has to be balanced with usability given its available inputs.

Exactly the same could have been said 40 years ago. Computers have (almost) always been outperforming humans and certain tasks, even if just calculus. The increase in capabilities due to more computation power has been happening constantly for several decades. It lead to some revolutions in terms of human-computer interaction, like the switch from text-based UIs to graphical ones.

The challenge of spreading between simplicity, discoverability, and capabilities has always been around, just the topics are shifting over the years. The reason for the decline in user-friendliness as in the article lies in the motivation of companies building software: They expect higher returns by oversimplifying things (as plain-looking sells easier), or nagging users about registration (as they can send promotional content later), even though they're perfectly aware about the usability trade-off.

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#452

Post by lioeters » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:28 PM UTC

rogual wrote: post #328

The silver lining is, now that we've all lived through Apple's Jobs years, we at least know that that kind of quality, consistency, attention to detail, etc. is possible. Sooner or later somebody will take all the good ideas from Apple's heyday and make another good OS. Maybe, if we're lucky, it'll even be open-source. It's the kind of thing I dream of doing myself one day. But if someone beats me to it, that's fine…

I share your optimism, that people who remember what good Apple design felt like, will carry on the torch.

The generational knowledge transfer seems to have broke down somewhere within Apple, that only the superficial aesthetic is being carried on, while the fundamentals - user-friendly design, repairability, extensibility - are getting left behind.

> ..take all the good ideas from Apple's heyday and make another good OS. Maybe, if we're lucky, it'll even be open-source.

There are a number of open-source community projects that impressed me as having such a vision, going back to the roots, keeping the dream alive and designing the way forward.

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#453

Post by Wowfunhappy » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:30 PM UTC

ncallaway wrote: post #448

Razengan wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Terminal/NSUserDefaults system is useless for navigation and discoverability of optional settings. How would I see all the options available for an app? We're back to googling and peer support. > For some reason, Apple has now decided that their simple platform needs to be as capable as the more advanced platform. Because they were getting crap for it.

> We're back to googling and peer support. Googling and peer support is much more acceptable for advanced actions than simple actions. If I need to Google how to disable labels in the dock, that's probably ok. If I need to Google how to turn down the brightness of the iPad...that's not great.

Yes, exactly.

An interface can only ever have a finite number of discoverable actions. So choose what actions are core functionality, and make those discoverable. Hide what's left.

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#454

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:33 PM UTC

Razengan wrote: post #287

The iPad was my gateway into the Apple orchard. I had never purchased an Apple product until about a decade ago, when I got the first Retina iPad as a gift for someone who didn’t use computers. I was so impressed by how intuitive the device and OS was for them, that I installed macOS in a VM on Windows to try iOS development. I fell in love with macOS (back during Lion) shortly before getting my first MacBook and lea…

[deleted]

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#455

Post by capedape » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:38 PM UTC

JohnTHaller wrote: post #288

Razengan wrote: post #287

The iPad was my gateway into the Apple orchard. I had never purchased an Apple product until about a decade ago, when I got the first Retina iPad as a gift for someone who didn’t use computers. I was so impressed by how intuitive the device and OS was for them, that I installed macOS in a VM on Windows to try iOS development. I fell in love with macOS (back during Lion) shortly before getting my first MacBook and lea…

Oh, you want to updates your apps? That's easy. Open up the App Store and then click on your profile picture. Wait, what?

Yea this is awkward. It will then often show you a “partial” list of the available updates so you might have to swipe down a couple times to see the full list.

I also know the long press shortcut to get to updates, but often forget that. As well as the copy/paste swipe gestures.

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#456

Post by emodendroket » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:39 PM UTC

nothrabannosir wrote: post #355

xg15 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Steve Jobs had followed user preference he'd have made a faster flip phone. Actually, would this be so bad?

This is a take that I had never considered. Given our apocalyptic predicament, perhaps faster horses would have been the better choice... What a twist.

According to the old Tom T. Hall song, the secret to life is "faster horses, younger women, older whiskey," and "more money." Food for thought.

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#457

Post by frank2 » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:40 PM UTC

rogy wrote: post #339

kccqzy wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hold the App Store icon until a menu appears. Choose "Updates" and done. I'm not defending Apple here. I only accidentally discovered this shortcut. I feel that designers these days expect users to explore a lot of things out of blind faith in order to discover functionality.

only works if you know where your app store icon is. i dont use the icons from the launcher screens anymore, everything goes in one folder bar the 'sticky apps' find it much faster to just pull down and search for apps

Am curious what you mean by the 'sticky apps'.

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#458

Post by emodendroket » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:42 PM UTC

r_singh wrote: post #323

FpUser wrote: post #133

I have a desktop Windows only product that I sell (10s of thousands of clients). It does not have the most eye pleasing UI design but it is very functional and ergonomic. All possible actions are clearly visible and / or discoverable. And every action can be accessed in less clicks then in any of competitor's products. I actually get some praises for it. Still every once in a while I get support email telling me that…

> beauty trumps usability/ergonomics I bet that beauty wouldn't have trumped usability (in terms of Apple's preference and an elite buyer's purchase decision) if it also wasn't positioned and marketed as an aspirational / cool product. There's a lot of people that just want to own it because it's the goto for aspirational / luxury electronics. That aside, I always buy only Apple because other products just deteriorat…

I've had my Windows computer for like five years and it still works about as well as the day I purchased it, as far as I can tell. My iPad of a similar vintage is not really that good for surfing the Web anymore (though to be fair I think we can probably blame the explosion of complexity of Web pages) and I can't seem to make any purchases in the App Store anymore. I think it's hard to make much judgment here without more serious data than one or two people's experiences.

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#459

Post by funkymike » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:43 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #257

ecaradec wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People can still multitask using mouse only. It’s ok to have a hidden fast interface if you have a discoverable slow interface.

Using the mouse to switch to a given program in the take bar isn't necessarily slow. It's actually faster if you have a decent number if windows open; clicking on exactly the right one straight away is faster than repeatedly pressing Alt-Tab and seeing if the new window brought to the foreground was the right one.

One of the things that made multitasking on Windows much better for me was discovering that:

1. win+ opens the program on the taskbar from the left. So having a bunch of pinned programs makes opening them very fast and easy.

2. Holding the windows key down then pressing the number multiple times allows switching between multiple instances of the program, similar to holding alt and hitting tab multiple times.

For example, chrome is the tenth icon pinned to the taskbar (counting from the left). So win+0 open chrome or if already open switches to the first window. Holding the windows key and hitting 0 allows me to quickly switch between multiple chrome windows.

So I don't have to mentally keep track of the current alt-tab order to switch between the second putty window and third chrome window. I just hit win+77 for putty and win+000 for chrome.

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#460

Post by marrone12 » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

neor wrote: post #331

Razengan wrote: post #287

The iPad was my gateway into the Apple orchard. I had never purchased an Apple product until about a decade ago, when I got the first Retina iPad as a gift for someone who didn’t use computers. I was so impressed by how intuitive the device and OS was for them, that I installed macOS in a VM on Windows to try iOS development. I fell in love with macOS (back during Lion) shortly before getting my first MacBook and lea…

I fully agree, there is a steady decline in usability and its a bloody shame because for years the usability is what set Apple apart from the others. A few things which hugely annoy me; - Saving a photo from iMessage.... the option has disappeared. I get a popup to airdrop the file, interact with some apps and a huge copy button. In fact, I can scroll down in this menu but there is not a single visual indicator that…

1Password works natively with iOS... In the standard iOS keyboard when you are in a password field, click on the key icon that pops up and you can select to fill the password from 1pass.