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Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

reuters.com

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Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone like Dennis Muilenburg then? If the last one was an engineer, why would another engineer restore your confidence any more?

An engineering background is the bare-minimum requirement, not all engineers are equal capable (or capable at all).

> An engineering background is the bare-minimum requirement

But why?

Is their problem an engineering one?

Or a culture, leadership and values ones?

Everyone's saying that they put profit before safety. That's a financial decision that they need to address not an engineering one!

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#162

> Chairman David Calhoun will take over as CEO and president, effective Jan. 13, the company said, adding that a change in leadership was necessary to restore confidence in the company. If they wanted to restore my confidence, they’d have picked an engineer, not an accountant.

Good accountants know not only about the bottom line of the yearly budget, but also about how long-term risks work, too. As an software engineer, it's very seductive to bad-mouth other professions, especially the suits (MBAs, accountants and other "dirty money people"), but objectively speaking, there's nothing inherently bad or inferior about them.

Bean counters don't have any ability to understand if their reports are lying to them. If all their reports are saying "all systems go" and there isn't anyone doing any fact-checking, how can the organization be successful?

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#163
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure about the "Making Billions" bit. They are going to have to either do a massive 11 figure write down or spread out their losses on the Max over the next 10+ years. Either one is a pretty bitter pill to swallow. I'm betting we'll see a huge write down when the new CEO takes over, that way they can push as much blame as possible on the old regime and move forward with a clean-ish slate.

Which is ironic given they chose a board member to be the new CEO. It's not new leadership, he was part of the original leadership team as a member of the board.

I have no idea how the Boeing board works, but most boards aren't involved in the day-to-day operations of the corporation and would be considered separate from the "leadership team".

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#165

Watched an aljazira documentary about falling standards at a Boeing factory a couple of years ago and been waiting to see if something like this would happen. Now they're gonna sacrifice a lamb, keep same corporate struture and philosophy, keep on making billions, remember to appologise even more next time.

Do you have a link to it? Or was it only shown on television? I'd like to watch it.

Maybe https://youtu.be/rvkEpstd9os

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#166
post #107

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/business/boeing-dreamline... > Safety lapses at the North Charleston plant have drawn the scrutiny of airlines and regulators. Qatar Airways stopped accepting planes from the factory after manufacturing mishaps damaged jets and delayed deliveries. > Less than a month after the crash of the second 737 Max jet, Boeing called North Charleston employees to an urgent meeting. The company…

It’s funny how people treats unions as panaceas to all problems. It’s strange to present them as some sort of solution in this case, where there was widespread engineering and management cultural issues, and would therefore somehow have prevented major air disasters. Workers rights and forcing higher wages might be great for the working poor and it might actually make economic sense in certain niche industries where…

Just curious how you'd explain Germany and the high levels of unions in the export industries there? You can hardly say that there is little global competition or high levels of protectionism for them.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#167

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/business/boeing-dreamline... > Safety lapses at the North Charleston plant have drawn the scrutiny of airlines and regulators. Qatar Airways stopped accepting planes from the factory after manufacturing mishaps damaged jets and delayed deliveries. > Less than a month after the crash of the second 737 Max jet, Boeing called North Charleston employees to an urgent meeting. The company…

> Turns out trying to squash the unions by moving to a different state helps show why the unions existed... Could you point out where you see a link between unions and the poor quality control that was observed in the plant?

> Could you point out where you see a link between unions and the poor quality control that was observed in the plant?

Unions empower employees, and the quality control issues were getting raised by employees and getting ignored by management. Empowered employees could have more effectively pushed back.

Also, the union employees were more qualified to do this type of work. However management gave instructions not to hire any, so the Boeing hired less qualified non-union people to assemble the planes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/business/boeing-dreamline...

> A New York Times review of hundreds of pages of internal emails, corporate documents and federal records, as well as interviews with more than a dozen current and former employees, reveals a culture that often valued production speed over quality. Facing long manufacturing delays, Boeing pushed its work force to quickly turn out Dreamliners, at times ignoring issues raised by employees....

> Mr. Barnett, who filed a whistle-blower complaint with regulators, said he had repeatedly urged his bosses to remove the [dangerous metal] shavings [near wiring]. But they refused and moved him to another part of the plant....

> Managers were also urged to not hire unionized employees from the Boeing factory in Everett, where the Dreamliner is also made, according to two former employees. “They didn’t want us bringing union employees out to a nonunion area,” said David Kitson, a former quality manager, who oversaw a team responsible for ensuring that planes are safe to fly. “We struggled with that,” said Mr. Kitson, who retired in 2015. “There wasn’t the qualified labor pool locally.” Another former manager, Michael Storey, confirmed his account....

> In the interest of meeting deadlines, managers sometimes played down or ignored problems, according to current and former workers. Mr. Barnett...learned in 2016 that a senior manager had pulled a dented hydraulic tube from a scrap bin, he said. He said the tube, part of the central system controlling the plane’s movement, was installed on a Dreamliner. Mr. Barnett said the senior manager had told him, “Don’t worry about it.” He filed a complaint with human resources, company documents show....

> But several former employees said high-level managers pushed internal quality inspectors to stop recording defects. Cynthia Kitchens, a former quality manager, said her superiors penalized her in performance reviews and berated her on the factory floor after she flagged wire bundles rife with metal shavings and defective metal parts that had been installed on planes.“It was intimidation,” she said. “Every time I started finding stuff, I was harassed.”...

> Mr. Barnett was reprimanded in 2014 for documenting errors. In a performance review seen by The Times, a senior manager downgraded him for “using email to express process violations,” instead of engaging “F2F,” or face to face. He took that to mean he shouldn’t put problems in writing. The manager said Mr. Barnett needed to get better at “working in the gray areas and help find a way while maintaining compliance.”

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#168

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/business/boeing-dreamline... > Safety lapses at the North Charleston plant have drawn the scrutiny of airlines and regulators. Qatar Airways stopped accepting planes from the factory after manufacturing mishaps damaged jets and delayed deliveries. > Less than a month after the crash of the second 737 Max jet, Boeing called North Charleston employees to an urgent meeting. The company…

> Turns out trying to squash the unions by moving to a different state helps show why the unions existed... Could you point out where you see a link between unions and the poor quality control that was observed in the plant?

> While Boeing has nurtured generations of aerospace professionals in the Seattle area, there was no comparable work force in South Carolina. Instead, managers had to recruit from technical colleges in Tulsa, Okla., and Atlanta.

> Managers were also urged to not hire unionized employees from the Boeing factory in Everett, where the Dreamliner is also made, according to two former employees.

> “They didn’t want us bringing union employees out to a nonunion area,” said David Kitson, a former quality manager, who oversaw a team responsible for ensuring that planes are safe to fly.

> “We struggled with that,” said Mr. Kitson, who retired in 2015. “There wasn’t the qualified labor pool locally.” Another former manager, Michael Storey, confirmed his account.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#169
post #97
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it will take on the order of 10 years. What are the 737 customers going to fly in the mean time? Keeping old airplanes flying longer isn't exactly increasing security either. And there is no indication so far, that a 737 MAX with a fixed MCAS isn't safe. Don't get me wrong: I think Boeing should have created a true 737 successor long ago and should do ASAP. But until it is done, there is a need for a current…

> And there is no indication so far, that a 737 MAX with a fixed MCAS isn't safe. I don't think that's quite true. There's been a large swathe of other problems [0] involved in the production. Broken or damaged parts, engine shutdowns and faulty hydraulics are just some of the concerns that Boeing seemed to have glossed over. There has to be a reason that Boeing was willing to go so far as halt production [1] to reas…

They're halting production because they can't deliver the planes.

They don't have any internal controls to halt production for safety reasons, that much should be evident by now.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#170
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people do get a sense of pride and fulfillment out of doing a good job. But a good job for a CEO is building shareholder value, which is now understood as "[wringing] all the money out of the company that they can [for the shareholders]." That's a different job than building an organization that consistently chooses safety over schedule and cost.

That's not a sound long-term plan.

It does not seem this sort of general behavior is punished much even in the long term. It's very hard to compete with Boeing so they can do pretty much anything they want if they would want to.
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