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JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

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Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#371

Post by hugi »

chris_j wrote: post #338
hugi wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an outsider fan. I've attempted to use IntelliJ on multiple occasions, but it just can't really compete with Eclipse as far as my requirements are concerned. But the competition from and innovation in IntelliJ has no doubt made Eclipse better (and modern Eclipse is kind of awesome and just keeps getting better).

What is it about your requirements that means that IntelliJ can't compete with Eclipse?

I'm a contractor working on many projects. Using Eclipse, I can keep my entire universe of all projects I have deployed (about 30 of them), as well as their dependent libraries, as well as every open source project I use and contribute to, open at all times.

I almost never close a project and I never open a project. It's just all there. If I need to use or modify a piece of code, written by me or someone else, it's all accessible to me at all times with a single keystroke.

No project switching. Close to no context switching. IntelliJ doesn't even come close to this kind of power.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#372

Post by mthoms »

kevingadd wrote: post #288
kevindong wrote: post #179

I'm a big fan of the way JetBrains sells their licenses. Like a lot of software companies nowadays, they only sell licenses on a subscription basis. But with a very customer-friendly clause of where if you pay for a subscription for 12 months you get a perpetual license for the latest version of the product when you initially subscribed. And then after paying for any particular version of a product for 12 months, you…

I understand the business reason for the licensing model so I don't really hold it against them, but after a couple years of 'Oh, you want fixes for these bugs we introduced recently? You'll have to buy another 12 months' where they constantly kept breaking new things when landing important fixes, I got fed up with the treadmill and just stopped using their products (in my case, ReSharper and dotTrace). I'd get probl…

That's my experience also. It's like their model almost incentivizes them to introduce regressions.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#373

Post by RussianCow »

mthoms wrote: post #361
kevindong wrote: post #179

I'm a big fan of the way JetBrains sells their licenses. Like a lot of software companies nowadays, they only sell licenses on a subscription basis. But with a very customer-friendly clause of where if you pay for a subscription for 12 months you get a perpetual license for the latest version of the product when you initially subscribed. And then after paying for any particular version of a product for 12 months, you…

This is incorrect. Lots of people believe this but it just isn't true. When your one-year subscription expires you actually have a perpetual license for the first version that was available when you signed up. NOT for the last one available when the contract ended. In other words, when your one year subscription is up, you have to downgrade to a one year-old (possibly buggy) version. For more mature toolchains like C…

The OP said:

> you get a perpetual license for the latest version of the product when you initially subscribed

Which is correct, and is the same thing you described.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#374

Post by dmitriid »

savanaly wrote: post #253
wayneftw wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "move the cursor to a certain place and enter some text" In vscode, I'm usually already looking at the call site of a function I want to edit. So I move the cursor into the function call and hit F12 which takes me to the function definition to edit it. Once I'm done, I hit Alt+LEFT to navigate back to where I was to continue on... If I didn't start from a call site but I know the file I want to edit - I hit Ctrl+P,…

>So I move the cursor...What do you do in vim that is far easier? The part about moving the cursor. Vim users typically don't move the cursor with the mouse but rather with the keyboard. Having to move your hands off the keyboard to reach for the mouse then back is the part that starts to feel sluggish if you get used to not doing it.

Before a vim'er finishes typing yet another command to find that one specific text, a mouse user will have already clicked where needed :)

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#375

Post by mthoms »

heavenlyblue wrote: post #170
toyg wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Usually the products are nothing more than a collection of IntelliJ Ultimate plugins That's not really true. The experience you get from, e.g. PyCharm and GoLand is substantially better than what you get from IDEA + Python plugin or IDEA + Go plugin. Yes, the plugin will get you 85% of the way there, but it will feel more clumsy and hacky than just using the dedicated product.

That’s absolutely wrong. The only thing that you’ll notice in IDEA is that it makes certain assumptions about Java (e.g vocabulary and certain menu items are Java-related), but otherwise the functionality is the same.

Actually, you're wrong.

There are indeed plenty of features that are specific to each IDE/Language that aren't in the IDEA-equivalent plugins.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#376

Post by echelon »

Waterluvian wrote: post #276
echelon wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> use intellij for Rust Use CLion instead of IntelliJ. It has much better debugging support. I've used both VSCode and CLion quite a bit for Rust, and I prefer CLion. It's got a much better understanding of the language.

Forgive me but aren't they just identical apps? I swear I thought they were all the same base program with a different set of plug-ins. And you could basically make any of them behave like any of them.

No, they are surprisingly not! IntelliJ doesn't have the debugging support CLion does and won't let you set breakpoints across language boundaries.

IntelliJ also sucks for Ruby and Go compared to RubyMine and Goland. Even with the language plugins.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#377

Post by grogenaut »

Waterluvian wrote: post #275
grogenaut wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you really writing that much code where a 20% (actual, and I'm going to guess to you it's a 100% percieved) slow down is going to make you get fired? Or think of it another way, why are you only able to work in optimal environments, and is that the real benefit you provide? Are you going to get laid off if you aren't fully optimal? If you switched keyboard layouts would you lose this speed too? Can you afford to…

Apologies but I'm only reading the first sentence of your comment. It's about how I enjoy coding. Its my job but I love it. It's fun. Part of what makes it so enjoyable is the ergonomics. Ask any craftsman about their tools.

Non-sarcastic question, how do you fare in situations where you are uncomfortable, like learning new skills; Where you are just BAD at a thing. New sport, new technology/language, etc?

I learned a while back that I had to lean into those things and just get through the awkward if you wanted to keep learning.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#378

Post by s_kilk »

wayneftw wrote: post #222
edanm wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mainly use vim and occasionally use Jetbrains. My setup in vim is super complex. I can tell you exactly how I feel about it: Vim is a better text editor than anything else. By far. Unfortunately, vim is terrible at basically everything else. The problem is, once you learn to use vim's text editing capabilities, then editing code using anything else feels like a pain. I'm not talking about variable lookups / etc. I'…

> "move the cursor to a certain place and enter some text" In vscode, I'm usually already looking at the call site of a function I want to edit. So I move the cursor into the function call and hit F12 which takes me to the function definition to edit it. Once I'm done, I hit Alt+LEFT to navigate back to where I was to continue on... If I didn't start from a call site but I know the file I want to edit - I hit Ctrl+P,…

I do all of the same in emacs (and vim), and because I use doom-emacs I get all this basically for free without much configuration on my end.

- Go-to-definition is `g d` (with the cursor over the function name in question)

- Project-wide file search is `SPC SPC`

- Jumping to a function is `SPC s i` and then just start typing to fuzzy-match the function name

I stick with this setup because it does pretty much everything I could want from IDEA, and does it without churning up most of the resources on my machine. And trust me, I've tried to switch to IDEA, but it's just too big and too slow, and too poor of an editor for me to actually make the switch.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#379

Post by dmitriid »

edanm wrote: post #256
wayneftw wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "move the cursor to a certain place and enter some text" In vscode, I'm usually already looking at the call site of a function I want to edit. So I move the cursor into the function call and hit F12 which takes me to the function definition to edit it. Once I'm done, I hit Alt+LEFT to navigate back to where I was to continue on... If I didn't start from a call site but I know the file I want to edit - I hit Ctrl+P,…

It's not so much the moving between the files - which vim is terrible at (one of the many things I had to extend in vim in order to get it to work like an IDE). But it's moving and editing within the file itself. E.g., say you somehow got to a file, and it now has a bunch of functions in it, and you're literally looking at the line you want to edit. To get to that line, there's a bunch of different ways, but you can…

> If you're using a non-vim editor, you'd probably

Double-click the word to select it, and start typing right away.

> it's as close as you can get to literally telling someone exactly what to do.

I usually tell someone "Change the word 'validate' to 'something else'". SO i grab my mouse/trackpad, and get there in one click (or double-click).

> It's easy to dismiss as trivial or unimportant - these are tiny savings of time, after all

You should observe most of these "savings" in real life. There's rarely a time when I can't do stuff with code faster than a Vim user. Because by the time the vim user has typed the required sequence of letter, or counted which line/symbol/mark to go to, or wrote a macro correctly, I'll have finished all I needed to do using IDEs built-in capabilities and/or a mouse.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#380

Post by mandeepj »

echelon wrote: post #370
manigandham wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also Fork: https://git-fork.com/

I'm really curious - why do people want a graphical git client? The command line exposes everything, and the model is simple and intuitive. I work in a very large monorepo, so it's not like I'm working in a git tree that isn't complicated.

for a new person, it's almost impossible to get anything done with git command line
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