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JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

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Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#81

Post by grogenaut »

Waterluvian wrote: post #8

I badly want to use intellij for Rust and other languages. But the issue I smash up against is that years of Vscode + my customizations has made using any other editor terribly clunky. I can spend hours customizing the controls and UI but I still feel like someone handed me the keys to some old car made in a country that doesn't exist anymore. This in part revealed to me the cost associated with all the editor custom…

are you really writing that much code where a 20% (actual, and I'm going to guess to you it's a 100% percieved) slow down is going to make you get fired?

Or think of it another way, why are you only able to work in optimal environments, and is that the real benefit you provide? Are you going to get laid off if you aren't fully optimal? If you switched keyboard layouts would you lose this speed too? Can you afford to make ANY changes at all if this is your criteria?

After having to code about 80 java file application on a data center pull out crappy laptop screen with a jacket with just notepad and javac over a few days I just use the defaults on everything or settings that are one change away (like eclipse mode in intellij which is a meta setting like vim mode). Other than that I just adapt and never customize. This lets me use other people's computers easily, use many different OSes (I write software that enables the rest of my company so I write for what they use on what they use), and editors with little issue. I can also setup a computer in about 20 minutes. I find that the majority of my time these days is deciding what we should be doing and how. The time to write the actual code is pretty minimal.

So I ask again are you optimizing for the right thing here? Unless you are constantly re-enacting the scene from Swordfish I don't think you are.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#82

Post by dmitryminkovsky »

enitihas wrote: post #5

Jetbrains products are awesome though. I used to use a heavily customized vim which was a pretty good setup, but the things a jetbrains ide can do are just much better than what my custom setup could do. I pay for a personal subscription and couldn't be happier. I will recommend everyone to atleast give their products a try. They have a free trial period.

I came to say this. That $270M revenue is backed by a #1 product line. I first tried PHPStorm back in 2014 after I got tired of the wonky debugging capability in Eclipse. I still think Eclipse is a really important project in the way that JetBrains is the Google of IDEs and Eclipse is maybe the Firefox, and we need Firefoxes.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#83

Post by stephenr »

coliveira wrote: post #55
ibobev wrote: post #41

The single most feature I hate about their products is their reliance on JVM, which makes them memory hungry and slow on older machines. :)

Agreed. I hate using Java apps on the desktop. It is OK if your target is java itself, but I wouldn't start a java app to develop Python or some other language.

I used to think the same, but I’ve literally never found an IDE as feature complete (both built in/first party plugins and via 3rd party plugins) as IDEA.

Those that come close are not “native” either. Trading the jvm for xul/scintilla (Komodo) or fucking electron, to get worse productivity and say “it isn’t jvm” is stupid IMO.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#84

Post by b5n »

gonehome wrote: post #64
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #20

I can’t tell you how many times my use of very vanilla Emacs with zero jedi / autocomplete / search features has saved me in my career. It’s so critical to use text editors for software development and extract all other functionality to separate shell tools. If a mix of very simple vim or Emacs + grep / git grep / silver searcher + CLI tools for automatic linting, test cases, etc., isn’t efficient for you, and motiva…

Comments like this were part of the reason I wasted a lot of time earlier in my career trying to use emacs or vim on large code bases instead of an IDE. I suspect this is some tribal identity thing about being a “real” programmer that I fell victim too. The IDEs are extremely powerful and much better out of the box for working in a large code base. They allow you to navigate a lot more easily and focus on the code it…

Use what works best, but Emacs is incredibly powerful, and certainly has the potential to make you more productive. I wish I had taken the time to learn Emacs earlier in my career, my task efficiency has increased significantly since converting my work flows.

It does take a long time to learn relative to plug and play solutions (especially for someone like me with decades of old habits), luckily I had a few months off from work for the transition. The investment has been well worth it, it helps if you like lisp :)

Disclaimer: I use and advocate for tools derided above: linter/test integration, embedded features like autocomplete, etc.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#85

Post by nindalf »

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #82
enitihas wrote: post #5

Jetbrains products are awesome though. I used to use a heavily customized vim which was a pretty good setup, but the things a jetbrains ide can do are just much better than what my custom setup could do. I pay for a personal subscription and couldn't be happier. I will recommend everyone to atleast give their products a try. They have a free trial period.

I came to say this. That $270M revenue is backed by a #1 product line. I first tried PHPStorm back in 2014 after I got tired of the wonky debugging capability in Eclipse. I still think Eclipse is a really important project in the way that JetBrains is the Google of IDEs and Eclipse is maybe the Firefox, and we need Firefoxes.

Man why you gotta do Firefox dirty like that?

Firefox is absolutely the best browser IMO. Unlike Eclipse, which is acceptable but doesn’t hold a candle to JetBrains.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#86

Post by ehnto »

GordonS wrote: post #7
enitihas wrote: post #5

Jetbrains products are awesome though. I used to use a heavily customized vim which was a pretty good setup, but the things a jetbrains ide can do are just much better than what my custom setup could do. I pay for a personal subscription and couldn't be happier. I will recommend everyone to atleast give their products a try. They have a free trial period.

I'm also a big of of their products, and pay for a persnal subscription for Rider, ReSharper, DotMemory, DotTrace and DotCover. Rider is absolutely stuffed with features, and is way more stable and performant than Visual Studio. I also like the way your renewal gets cheaper every year, as a kind of loyalty bonus. I honestly had no idea they were making so much revenue - very pleased to see it though!

> Rider is absolutely stuffed with features

That's just it for me. The tools have so many good features, remain stable, and keep all those features out of my way until I need them. Like Adam Savage's first order accessibility principle for his workshops, the tool I need from their IDEs is always often in arms reach, yet still out of the way.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#87

Post by ProfSarkov »

gonehome wrote: post #64
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #20

I can’t tell you how many times my use of very vanilla Emacs with zero jedi / autocomplete / search features has saved me in my career. It’s so critical to use text editors for software development and extract all other functionality to separate shell tools. If a mix of very simple vim or Emacs + grep / git grep / silver searcher + CLI tools for automatic linting, test cases, etc., isn’t efficient for you, and motiva…

Comments like this were part of the reason I wasted a lot of time earlier in my career trying to use emacs or vim on large code bases instead of an IDE. I suspect this is some tribal identity thing about being a “real” programmer that I fell victim too. The IDEs are extremely powerful and much better out of the box for working in a large code base. They allow you to navigate a lot more easily and focus on the code it…

I know a couple of people holding the same opinion as OP. Can't say they are more productive.

The percentage of people that are hard to work with is higher in this group though.

And I know, what I'm talking about here. Started with a Commodore 64 in 1982, first Linux 1994. Did everything in emacs, calculated mode lines, Unix was my IDE, you name it.

I'm a very happy user of CLion and IntelliJ IDEA now. Wouldn't want to go back to the dark ages.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#89

Post by donarb »

They are a sponsor of PyCon and their booth is always a hub of activity. Last year they held mini tutorial sessions with prominent Python developers who demonstrated PyCharm with various programming examples (like Flask, virtual environments and Jupyter notebooks).

I was able to talk directly with the PyCharm developers to figure out a problem I was having when starting new projects. Their developers are friendly and very knowledgeable.

I have no hesitation renewing my PyCharm subscription knowing that these guys are building a great product that makes my work easier.

Re: JetBrains: $270M revenue, 405K paying users, $0 raised

#90

Post by randomidiot666 »

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #20

I can’t tell you how many times my use of very vanilla Emacs with zero jedi / autocomplete / search features has saved me in my career. It’s so critical to use text editors for software development and extract all other functionality to separate shell tools. If a mix of very simple vim or Emacs + grep / git grep / silver searcher + CLI tools for automatic linting, test cases, etc., isn’t efficient for you, and motiva…

You are delusional and immature. I've seen experienced Vim/Emacs kiddies like you really struggle to keep up with my productivity levels in IDEA with JVM languages. Doing everything at the command line doesn't make you 1337 and superior. The actual typing and manipulation of text is the least complex side of development. Most of my time is spent thinking, analyzing, rather than monkeying with text. However I use Vim keybindings in IDEA and get the best of both worlds. Efficient text editing + advanced semantic parsing at a level that Vim and Emacs will never achieve.
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