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Having Kids

paulgraham.com

771–780 of 902 posts

Re: Having Kids

#771

Do we have the right to have kids? It goes against every principle of "informed consent" - bringing a life into the universe is a grand and momentous thing, far more life-changing than any other action that would normally require consent. Anyone who is born will die - eventually they will suffer, and they will lose everything. And they may not even live a joyful life in the interval beforehand. We require consent for…

How is this case different from how our society currently operates with respect to underage kids? They have limited consent, and "informed consent" is seen as irrelevant.

The core of the issue still stands: creating a life is a critical and momentous thing. Do we have the right to make this decision for another being, or is this simply accepted because it is normal?

Re: Having Kids

#772

So my experience was the opposite. I came in expecting this great "chemical change" where suddenly the world revolved around my kids and their future. Well the latter part is true: my world now revolves around them and their futures. But chemical change? No. It's just the responsibility I have now. There's never a break. It's all-encompassing. I mean, it's survivable, I can deal with it, and I do the best I can, but,…

Thank you for posting your perspective. As someone who's contemplating having kids in the distant future, I'm wondering if there's a way to predict whether these chemical changes will occur for me or not. Do you have any insights here? In particular, I'm curious about these questions pertaining to your life prior to having children: - From 1 to 10, how much did you enjoy helping a friend out when it was a mild inconv…

Cuteness is not a good indicator. Both kids and dogs can fast grow out of being cute. Just think about how cute they are when you have to clean up their poop.

OTOH, in my experience, raising a dog is quite comparable to the first two years of raising a kid. Less so with cats, they are too independent whereas a dog relies heavily on you.

Another possible way of finding out if you have it in you being a parent, is to play "The Last Of Us". That might sound strange, but I've seen many people say that they felt very protective of Ellie and had parental feelings towards her.

Re: Having Kids

#773
post #344

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

Older guy with advice here. Spend as much time as you can preparing financially for the future. Your kids when they get older will care more about what you have done and what you can do for them and forget the fact that you missed spending time with them for honestly what are trivial events (while that may be true in some cases it's also I feel a myth created by writers and Hollywood and certain 'whiners' where it ma…

Another older guy here. I can barely wrap my head around how much I disagree with this comment.

Spend your focus on acquiring money for your kids leads to kids who want money from you. Spend your focus on giving love to your kids leads to kids who want love from you.

Re: Having Kids

#774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and I are having a discussion about this very point that has lasted since our first child 14 years ago. She argue that I may have two jobs where one lasts 8 hours and the other lasts 16 hours whereas she as the one job that lasts 24 hours. The only difference is that I get to change my scenery and work environment, allow a refresh if you will, and allow a stresses to take a break. For her, she stays in the sa…

See if she wants to trade places. Let her breadwin - same salary as you - while you slave away at the '24 hour office'. Bet she's won't take you up on the offer.

It is not the case where she wants to trade place with me. It is more of me whinging about my stress levels at my work. Her jobs at home are definitely much harder and more stressful than my work. Kudos to her for managing it and keeping the household in order.

Both of us knows what we are good at and how we can help contribute to our family life.

Re: Having Kids

#775

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

[deleted]

Re: Having Kids

#776
I've had a lot of thoughts while reading posts here, but my predominant thought is about how vital it is that we approach parenting with a mindset that helps us place our roles as parents in a helpful perspective. While your work is important for the obvious reason of supporting yourself and your family, raising your children well is far more important in many ways. Unfortunately, the cause and effect or investment and reward of parenting is far less tangible than that of work. Many of us spent a lot of exhausting, sleepless days and nights in college. It was an investment in ourselves to prepare us to live independently and successfully. These exhausting, sleepless days and nights that we spend as parents is a similar investment, but this time it isn't an investment in ourselves: it's an investment in our children. Are they worth the investment? Of course they are, and I don't think anyone here is suggesting that they are not. People are just trying to grapple with the struggle. One of the ways to handle an arduous struggle is to meet it with a healthy mindset; a different mindset than the one we've developed to that point in life.

Mindsets are not always easy to change, but changing them is part of life and sometimes the changes are forced on us. For example, when we lose jobs, we have to change our career mindsets; the old career that we may have loved may no longer work in our lives. That's life. Life isn't a static state and sometimes the states change whether we want them to or not. We go through stages of life and we change as we grow older. Yes, we developed hobbies, made friends, and had fun before we had kids, but when we have kids, they should be one of our new “hobbies”. They should be a new “job”. They can be our new “friends” and new fun. Parenting shouldn't be something that gets in the way of your life; it is your way of life. These little people depend on you to make them into functional people who can meet the demands of life. We can't just be task-masters who change diapers and shovel food into their mouths. Meeting their needs well will develop their senses of security, responsibility, and belonging in life. We have to treat them like the people that they are; we're getting to know them and they're getting to know us. It's far more important than that though, because we're shaping them and they're shaping us.

We also have to pay attention to how we socialize with them. How we interact from the very beginning is going to help determine how they interact with us and with others. I've seen so many parents who mindlessly fall into antagonistic relationships with their kids and spouses, without a philosophical idea of how this impacts the development of their personalities and our relationships with them. And here's the kicker: how we interact when they're babies and toddlers will help determine the nature of our relationships with them as they grow older. Contrary to what so many people say, it is helpful to reason with children long before they understand the full ramifications of the reasoning process. It's like on-the-job training of life: you're teaching them to reason. If there's a reason why they shouldn't be doing things, explain to them what the reason is instead of spanking them or dismissively saying, “because I said so.” Your willingness to invest the time with them when they're young and your determination to make that time meaningful will help make it more likely that you'll have meaningful time with them as they get older. Having teenagers who wanted to hang with dad was so much more rewarding than my peers whose kids wanted nothing to do with them.

Big picture thinking. It doesn't give us more energy, but sometimes inspiration does. Another thing that may help is looking at your little children and imagining how helpless they are in this world. And they're looking at you with awe, believing in you and depending on you to make their lives work.

Re: Having Kids

#777
May be great for you, and maybe even most people. But to me kids would take away every single thing I enjoy in my life. Everything. I have a hard time seeing them making my life better since it's be a case of tearing down every single life joy, every single part of my life, and build up a new one. A new one filled with nothing I currently value, except connection to people (which I already have).

The first paragraph of this essay doesn't convince me that this person's story applies to me, either. "I'd have been sad to think I'd never have children", he says. Nope.

Re: Having Kids

#778

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your kids are at the age before school where they are the hardest to deal with. Once a kid gets to school, magic happens. I mean it. - They get tired from learning stuff. And the teachers know how to deal with them. - They learn how to behave in a group. They start having actual friends. - You get a bunch of friends who are in the same situation as you, and you can use their kids to cancel out yours. (AKA playdates)…

> my kids started school at 4. I've put them in full time after school care as well, ending at 6pm > you get them asleep before 8pm > you can give them a book and that will keep them quiet And then people wonder why kids don't listen to and respect their parents when they grow up. You're basically just giving school teachers full control to raise your kids at age of 4, and they only interact with you for 1-2 hours du…

Modern kids have a historically unprecedented opportunity to learn about the world they live in. In order to do that, they need to not be with you.

Do you really think that time spent is quality? People tend to remember emotion highs and lows. You don't need a lot of time for that. That trip to the coast that they'll remember as adults actually only lasted a few hours. The rest of the time is mostly drudgery like cleaning up plates.

And regarding behaviour, you'll notice they behave better when exposed to groups of people who aren't their parents. It's an important aspect of socialisation to expose them to other people.

Re: Having Kids

#779
post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and they only interact with you for 1-2 hours during the day and don't really know who you are As if 1-2 hours per day is "little"? That's not in any way why kids "don't listen to and respect their parents when they grow up". Kids spent even less "quality time" with their parents (a relatively modern boomer invention) back in the old times when they did fully "listened to and respected" them.

Hmm... I thought the 9-5, office work, working for other people/businesses are the modern inventions and for tens of thousands of years mankind spent 80%+ of the day with their offsprings/families/villages. It's interesting to think that "quality time" which in this context simply means "2 hours per day together" should be enough. This is not how humans evolved. As harsh as it sounds, the philosophical question above…

No, you need to ask the opposite question. Why on earth would you think you need to hang around your kids all the time?

What is the correct amount of time according to you? Keep in mind school is off maybe 14 weeks of the year, plus weekends.

Re: Having Kids

#780
To anyone reading to see if they should have kids, here's my take on it. It's not the magical euphoric experience described here, some people get that but I've always been more of a down to earth person.

It's more or less like getting a dog ( I take really good care of my dogs ). You take it out, stick to a routine, take care of it, love it and enjoy its company and bond that comes with having one.

If this is you then you'll be just fine having kids. If you dump it in the backyard and occasionally have time for it then it's not going to be great.

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