Having Kids • Hacker News Board

Re: Having Kids

#591

Post by asah » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 2:49 AM UTC

daxfohl wrote: post #258

So my experience was the opposite. I came in expecting this great "chemical change" where suddenly the world revolved around my kids and their future. Well the latter part is true: my world now revolves around them and their futures. But chemical change? No. It's just the responsibility I have now. There's never a break. It's all-encompassing. I mean, it's survivable, I can deal with it, and I do the best I can, but,…

THANK YOU for saying this. Not only is it is service to would-be parents, parents who don't feel the chemicals but do feel guilt, but it's also a service to those of us without kids and without regrets.

...and "you da real MVP" for raising your kids well, without "chemical assistance." Thank you.

Re: Having Kids

#592

Post by tim333 » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 2:50 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #557

asdff wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially the SUV. Virtually unsurvivable.

And everyone (especially parents) feels like they need an SUV, because everyone else has one, and they believe being in an SUV in a crash will make it more survivable (especially if the opposing vehicle is an SUV). It's a vehicular arms race, and everyone is defecting instead of cooperating.

Ah well, at least collision avoidance systems are getting quite good. Hopefully they improve more and become standard on all vehicles.

Re: Having Kids

#593

Post by xvector » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 2:51 AM UTC

Do we have the right to have kids? It goes against every principle of "informed consent" - bringing a life into the universe is a grand and momentous thing, far more life-changing than any other action that would normally require consent.

Anyone who is born will die - eventually they will suffer, and they will lose everything. And they may not even live a joyful life in the interval beforehand.

We require consent for far less severe things in modern society.

If a being cannot give consent to exist, then it is not our decision to make.

Re: Having Kids

#594

Post by WhiteAussie » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 2:52 AM UTC

satyrnein wrote: post #313

quadrifoliate wrote: post #68

Ironically, this essay shows the biggest problem I have with having kids -- especially in the US, people with kids seem to single-mindedly focus on them and can't stop telling you about their kids . What remains of their social lives and all their holidays seem to revolve around the kids. I think pg echoes a bit of this sentiment himself when he says: > To some extent I'm like a religious cultist telling you that you…

I try to avoid telling unsolicited stories about my kids, but what else am I supposed to answer when people ask about my weekend? It's not that I'm mistaken about how exciting my kids are, it's that other people are mistaken about how exciting (for them) my weekend could possibly be!

Ignore them. Nothing they have to share could possibly be as exciting as your family. They went somewhere, saw something, whatever. Maybe they have some vile tale of drunken stupidity to share from Saturday night. Gross.

Everything they do, every weekend of their life, combined, pales in comparison to the life, love, and family you've created. Their immature adventures ought to register pity, if anything.

Re: Having Kids

#595

Post by patentatt » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 2:53 AM UTC

quadrifoliate wrote: post #68

Ironically, this essay shows the biggest problem I have with having kids -- especially in the US, people with kids seem to single-mindedly focus on them and can't stop telling you about their kids . What remains of their social lives and all their holidays seem to revolve around the kids. I think pg echoes a bit of this sentiment himself when he says: > To some extent I'm like a religious cultist telling you that you…

This is offensive. People talk about what they’re passionate about, and who are you to judge someone who is passionate about parenthood? It’s condescending. You could apply that same logic to anyone who talks about anything to a degree more than you deem it to be worthy of. I hope you someday get some perspective on life and learn how to appreciate people who are different than you are

Re: Having Kids

#596

Post by ajkjk » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 2:53 AM UTC

xvector wrote: post #593

Do we have the right to have kids? It goes against every principle of "informed consent" - bringing a life into the universe is a grand and momentous thing, far more life-changing than any other action that would normally require consent. Anyone who is born will die - eventually they will suffer, and they will lose everything. And they may not even live a joyful life in the interval beforehand. We require consent for…

Mostly this just indicates that your model of what 'rights' are is flawed, since it doesn't give the right answer for obviously true statements.

Re: Having Kids

#597

Post by WhiteAussie » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 2:55 AM UTC

quadrifoliate wrote: post #106

ajross wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate? What exactly is wrong with parents talking to you about their kids? Kids are a big part of our lives. We're telling you about our life. I think what you're saying is that you want us to be interested in different stuff, more along the lines of what you're interested in, because you're not interested in kids. That doesn't sound so much like a social problem to me as a simple personality mismatch.

> Can you elaborate? What exactly is wrong with parents talking to you about their kids? I'm not sure I can, but let me try. Some of my coworkers will chat to me for five minutes about watching that new Scorsese movie, and maybe make plans to hang out after work. Let's call this Group A. Some other ones will talk to me for twenty minutes about how their kids are really into Frozen 2, and how they dressed up as Elsa f…

Don't you feel pity for Group A? The most important thing in their lives is a movie and hanging out? They're just killing time. What's even the point?

Re: Having Kids

#598

Post by brycesbeard » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 2:59 AM UTC

kmarc wrote: post #547

coldtea wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and they only interact with you for 1-2 hours during the day and don't really know who you are As if 1-2 hours per day is "little"? That's not in any way why kids "don't listen to and respect their parents when they grow up". Kids spent even less "quality time" with their parents (a relatively modern boomer invention) back in the old times when they did fully "listened to and respected" them.

Hmm... I thought the 9-5, office work, working for other people/businesses are the modern inventions and for tens of thousands of years mankind spent 80%+ of the day with their offsprings/families/villages. It's interesting to think that "quality time" which in this context simply means "2 hours per day together" should be enough. This is not how humans evolved. As harsh as it sounds, the philosophical question above…

little of any modern decisions is based on what humans have experienced, historically. We have evolved a set of core emotional firings that do not have much to do with how we live.

Why start/stop at the initial decision, when these issues go so much deeper.

Re: Having Kids

#599

Post by masterphilo » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 3:01 AM UTC

xvector wrote: post #593

Do we have the right to have kids? It goes against every principle of "informed consent" - bringing a life into the universe is a grand and momentous thing, far more life-changing than any other action that would normally require consent. Anyone who is born will die - eventually they will suffer, and they will lose everything. And they may not even live a joyful life in the interval beforehand. We require consent for…

How is this case different from how our society currently operates with respect to underage kids? They have limited consent, and "informed consent" is seen as irrelevant.

Re: Having Kids

#600

Post by WhiteAussie » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 3:02 AM UTC

This is great to see. The harmful notion that modern young professionals are somehow 'above' children is ruining generations of Western adults. It boggles my mind that the idea that purpose can be found in an office cubicle making spreadsheets for a boss you hate has become so pervasive among our people. Along with many other toxic crumbs of anti-family propaganda, it's little wonder that our birthrates have collapsed below replacement. Also concerning is that reproduction has shifted far down the scale in terms of socioeconomic status. It's like that early scene in Idiocracy where the successful couple put off having a family until their late 30s, have difficulties, and end up dying childless, while the welfare-dependants in the trailer park are pumping out kids like rabbits. No doubt this partly accounts for the unprecedented decreasing IQ in many majority-White nations.