This is a nice essay. While he's right I only notice the bad parent situations probably, I've seen numerous instances of incorrigible kids had by otherwise successful parents with drug addiction and mental health issues that have almost no relationship to their parents and are in and out of institutions including prison into adulthood. The parents haven't experienced much joy or pride around their kid in a long time. If everything works out fine then it's probably lots of joy like Paul says. My family history seems to suggest to me I'd be in for a long hard road, I'm not willing to subject myself or offspring to that kind of suffering.
Having Kids
261–270 of 902 posts
Re: Having Kids
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't have kids but from what I know about small children they're likely to be a thousand times more selfish than you.
I have kids and what I’ve learned and noticed is that kids are, unsurprisingly, just like people, and there are selfish ones, and not so selfish ones. Generalizations don’t really work with people, or kids, because kids are people.
Parphrasing Brian Tracy [0] all people (and kids) are - lazy, greedy, ambitious, selfish, ignorant and vain - this is just a human nature. We're not bad because we feel those - because everybody does - what makes a difference is how we react/what habits we develop around those feelings that counts.
[0] Six basic character (...) - Psychology of Achievement - Brian Tracy
Re: Having Kids
#263Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…
> Just looking for some dads who can relate and maybe give some wisdom on the subject of having young kids and losing your ability to work on something interesting--which to be fair I never did before having kids Your problem is not that your kids have blocked you from interesting work. In fact it sounds like quite the opposite: you are so passionate and rewarded by childcare that it has inspired you like never befor…
While I get the sentiment, I'd suggest many aren't built this way. Feelers are, and find value in the "feeling" of feeling needed, providing, caretaking. There are groups (of which I am one) who find literally no personal value in that. Childrearing is a series of rote tasks, performed repeatedly, that are performed on billions of humans raised.
If anything, childrearing made me suic-idal for years at the mind-numbing, repetitive, 'useful only to 1' tasks, and made me solely aware of the inefficiency of raising humans. My kids are 6 and 9 now, and things became much better when they're able to take care of themselves.
Re: Having Kids
#264One thing that I don't see much discussion on is a single income setup. My wife was employed when our daughter was born (oh lord 13 years ago) but we had hired help (this was in India - that was a very affordable option). Eventually she decided to stay at home because she wanted more family time and quite possibly that's the best thing that ever happened to our family. Suddenly all of us had time and the luxury of on…
In my observation a single income setup is some kind of local optimum. I've never met a full time homemaker who thinks she's getting a raw deal. It is a real job that requires an exceptional level of responsibility, creativity, and effort, but it's one that is extremely financially and emotionally rewarding. When I ask they all say, essentially, "We didn't want work just to hire someone else to raise our children for…
> I've never met a full time homemaker who thinks she's getting a raw deal.
For an extreme example, consider a battered spouse who is afraid to leave because they have no financial independence. Even with alimony and such, the stay-at-home spouse takes on a lot of risk.
However, two working parents with young kids is a very difficult endeavor, so I can definitely see the appeal of one parent having time and flexibility!
Re: Having Kids
#265Question to people with kids: if you could do it again, would you do it at a different time of your life? Personally I’d like to wait until I’m in my mid 30s for some of the reasons Paul mentions: you have less time outside of work to do other things once you have kids. Seems like being a founder or even just trying to advance aggressively in a standard career is a lot harder if you have dependents. There’s also two…
If I had started younger, I would've tried for 4 kids instead of 2. I was 33 and 36 at my childrens' births. I would definitely do it younger if I had it to do over because now I want as much time with them as possible and would like time with grandkids. That said, we are fairly comfortable financially, and if that would necessarily not have been the case if I'd started younger, then it's really hard to say whether I would chose that in retrospect.
That said, I'm not sure having kids has to be so bad for your career. Nothing focuses a person more than needed to keep work time-boxed in order to leave time for family. Perhaps the totally self-motivated types would suffer, but for me and other parents I've known, it can sort of add a level of maturity and focus that can actually help a career.
Re: Having Kids
#266Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…
The kids are your project right now, it pays off
Re: Having Kids
#267I have two kids (6 and 3) and if I had to do it all again I would not. I miss my old life. Not that it was anything special but the things we take for granted like grabbing a quick bite to eat at a diner or going to the bathroom becomes a chore. I realize it gets better but damn, years of tending to the kids flew by and I can't for the life of me recall what I did for fun.
my problem has been that I'm an overachiever and I've been career oriented for the most part of my life. I know there's a saying where folks on their deathbed would never say "I wish I could work another hour," but I don't know anything else besides work. I definitely need a hobby and I feel bad at times when I resent my kids because I can't do what I was able to do before.
Re: Having Kids
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you go back to my original post, I used the idea of "biologically programmed" in the context of "sole purpose of reproducing effectively." That's the context that I am using "biologically programmed." It seems you are using it in a much broader context of "all possible human behavior." I am using it to distinguish between behaviors that support reproducing effectively and those that don't. If you are using it to i…
In other words, you’re making a circular argument: since you’re defining “biologically programmed behavior” as “having children”, you’re only proving that having children implies having children—a tautology. You’re also missing my point. The only reason you have any desires or goals or ambitions in the first place is because, at least heuristically, they serve some sort of self-replicating purpose. Not all possible h…
>In other words, you’re making a circular argument: since you’re defining “biologically programmed behavior” as “having children”
No, I am pointing out a contradictory argument, which was PG's "X is not X (because some Y)." Well, no, X is X, because that's how reasonable people define identities.
His original quote:
>But it is not, as I implicitly believed before having kids, simply your DNA heading for the lifeboats.
How I read it:
>[Having kids] is not...simply your [biological programming to reproduce].
That is obviously wrong to me, and the clearest way to point that out is to show that "biological programming to reproduce" is the definition of having kids.
>You’re also missing my point. The only reason you have any desires or goals or ambitions in the first place is because, at least heuristically, they serve some sort of self-replicating purpose.
I'm not missing that point, I agree with that point. I just don't see the relevance to my original argument.
Re: Having Kids
#269Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…
Your kids are at the age before school where they are the hardest to deal with. Once a kid gets to school, magic happens. I mean it.
- They get tired from learning stuff. And the teachers know how to deal with them.
- They learn how to behave in a group. They start having actual friends.
- You get a bunch of friends who are in the same situation as you, and you can use their kids to cancel out yours. (AKA playdates)
- Having friends in the same boat will help your confidence a lot. They can help you directly with the kids, plus some of them will have older kids too, and they can tell you it gets better.
- As for your own time, try to be disciplined about the kids' bedtime. It helps a lot that school is tiring them out, and use that momentum to not let them decide when to go to bed. If you get them asleep before 8pm, how much different is your day really? You had to eat anyway, and you have to keep the house clean regardless. Your real problem is if they keep you up to 11pm each night, then your life is gone, and they end up in a cycle of having not enough sleep. Make them sleep, then code up your side project.
For example my kids started school at 4. I've put them in full time after school care as well, ending at 6pm. Now they're tired but awake when they come home and can eat a meal, then bath, then bedtime. You can read something to put them to sleep, then go and do your own stuff.
--Edit
Forgot to mention, the kid will learn how to read. From there you can give them a book and that will keep them quiet. Remember to teach them how to code as well, so they have proper tools to explore the world.
Re: Having Kids
#270I have two kids (6 and 3) and if I had to do it all again I would not. I miss my old life. Not that it was anything special but the things we take for granted like grabbing a quick bite to eat at a diner or going to the bathroom becomes a chore. I realize it gets better but damn, years of tending to the kids flew by and I can't for the life of me recall what I did for fun. my problem has been that I'm an overachiever…
As an overachiever, who has hobbies - but one of them is working a lot, I agree with much of what you said.
Just recently, in talking through my similar frustrations (I have a 6 & 9 yro) - I've realized I love being, and playing with my kids, but not doing the rote parenting. We've considered placing kids in afterschool care longer, having more babysitters, etc. We've also considered getting an "au pair" to be around me, but to do the basic block and tacklin g so I can focus on the bigger issues.