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Having Kids

paulgraham.com

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Re: Having Kids

#221

Post by Huppie »

triangleman wrote: post #131

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

My learning / hobbies turned around a bit. I now like to read stuff about kids, their mental development, hoe to stimulate their growth etc. I love it.

Yes, it's very different from the hobbies I used to have, but for my brain, making the kids a hobby/'project' works pretty well.

I do kinda agree with another commenter here that it does somewhat sound like you simply need more challenging / interesting work. My four day workweek is fun / challenging enough that I don't really need to do anything similar (i.e. write software) as a side project.

Re: Having Kids

#222

Post by shantly »

triangleman wrote: post #131

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

Having young kids is like working 80 hour weeks. In fact it basically is that, just at two jobs rather than one. Plus you spend a lot more time keeping house, on top of it.

Most people don't have much left to give working those kinds of hours. Personally, I've had to dramatically cut back on hobbies and keeping up with various media, even, and all but drop some categories (I bet I spend 5% as much time gaming as I used to, for instance, and haven't even bothered to set up my gaming PC since a move about 1.5 years ago). I got a ton of reading done when each kid was young because you can just read them whatever, they don't know the difference, and you spend a lot of time feeding them or watching them in the bath so they don't drown or whatever, but now? Hahaha, so, so little reading.

Mostly I just watch movies or TV or read garbage on the Internet (ahem) because I don't mind as much being interrupted while doing those things.

Re: Having Kids

#223

Post by anon9001 »

d_burfoot wrote: post #97

Note that PG has two incredibly important positive factors that make his experience of parenthood much better: he has a great partner, and he is very wealthy. People who don't have these power-ups might have much more mixed feelings about the experience. I would actually like to have kids, but from a young age I decided that I would not do so unless I achieved financial independence. The reason is that if I were forc…

100% this for me, but I would go a step further. I don't want to birth kids into this exact situation.

If I have kids now, I'll have to work into old age, and so will my kids. That's a very sad situation in my view.

If I achieve financial independence personally, but I have kids who will have to toil their whole lives, then I'd feel I'm making a selfish choice. How could I explain to my kids, who would see nothing but a relaxed and happy life at home, that they now owe our system 40+ years of labor?

If I can achieve a level of wealth that would ensure my children could follow their dreams, then I'd love to have kids.

It's very hard to find a partner that would be able to say "Well, if we don't have $5M+ by age 40, we'll be childless, and that's fine. If we do make a lot of money, we'd love to have a big family."

I know lots of people here are doing it, but how can you ethically commit your unborn children to a lifetime of work?

And god forbid you have a child with disabilities and don't have a sizable financial buffer...

Re: Having Kids

#224

Post by User23 »

SubuSS wrote: post #198

One thing that I don't see much discussion on is a single income setup. My wife was employed when our daughter was born (oh lord 13 years ago) but we had hired help (this was in India - that was a very affordable option). Eventually she decided to stay at home because she wanted more family time and quite possibly that's the best thing that ever happened to our family. Suddenly all of us had time and the luxury of on…

In my observation a single income setup is some kind of local optimum. I've never met a full time homemaker who thinks she's getting a raw deal. It is a real job that requires an exceptional level of responsibility, creativity, and effort, but it's one that is extremely financially and emotionally rewarding. When I ask they all say, essentially, "We didn't want work just to hire someone else to raise our children for us." That said, part time hired help is very affordable in the USA too. You can get a fully qualified part time babysitter who is also willing to do light housework for about $15 an hour in California. I imagine in other states it's even more affordable.

When you look at the market value of the labor the homemaker does for the household, and consider that it accrues tax-free, the financial benefits are considerable. And there are also substantial tax benefits to married filing jointly when one spouse has no taxable income. For the arrangement to be successful though, the "working" spouse needs to fully recognize the value provided to the household and make sure it's well compensated, both emotionally and financially. If you can do that, it works extremely well.

Re: Having Kids

#225

Post by stevedomin »

legel wrote: post #200
burlesona wrote: post #70

I agree with this a lot. I was pretty anti-kid, not in the sense that I didn’t want them ever, but that I didn’t want them “any time soon.” My wife was this way too, until one day she wasn’t. I still felt pretty ambivalent about the whole thing until our first was born. Children really are interesting, and really do fill life with all kinds of quietly wonderful moments. We live in San Francisco, which is very hilly.…

The car-is-anti-human sentiment is one I can deeply empathize with. Just like oxygen and water, cars and their perils were with our generation since birth, and therefore for most are subconsciously taken for granted in life. But once you spend enough time in urban areas that have consciously rooted them out, you realize that their super loud noises, toxic smelly fumes, and omnipresent fear of death from them are inde…

Have you heard of Culdesac? It's a YC company building the first 100% car-free neighbourhood in Temple, Arizona.

https://culdesac.com

Re: Having Kids

#226

Post by 75dvtwin »

One clear change that happened with me, once having a child -- is that I understood my Dad much more.

I understood what made him upset, and I understood how he reacted and why... I started showing same behavioral traits as him. But it was only after I had our first child.

Stuff that I took for granted when my Dad was doing it, now I understood, was actually meant to take an effort, on behalf of a parent.

Unfortunately, my Dad passed away weeks after my first child was born. It felt like the 'nature' decided to make a replacement.... and exchange the life of my still young dad, to our first child...

So I did not have the time to express back to him, my gratitude, my newly found understand of his sacrifices to make his children happy & confident, and, at the same time, isolated from bad/unfair stuff....

Therefore, my advice is, do not repeat my mistake. Show your parents, while they are alive -- that you understand their sacrifice, and you are prepared to do the same for your children....

Re: Having Kids

#227

Post by munificent »

triangleman wrote: post #131

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

My kids are 8 and 11 now. I just spent the past hour working on my book while they puttered around doing... honestly I don't know what they were doing.

For me, the toddler years were the nadir in terms of having my own time. Babies sleep enough to give you some time. Older kids are independent enough. But toddlers, man, it's like living with a pair of destructive monkeys that you're legally forbidden to cage.

It will get better.

Re: Having Kids

#228

Post by rayiner »

triangleman wrote: post #131

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

My kids are 7 and 1. I know what you mean about that burst of energy and motivation, and about how it gets plowed right back into the family and it’s needs. Frankly, I do little other than work and kids. And that’s okay. It’s a stage of life, and it will pass (and you’ll probably miss it when it does). It’s important to carve out some time for you and your spouse, for socializing, networking, etc., but be realistic about your expectations.

Re: Having Kids

#229

Post by Uhhrrr »

triangleman wrote: post #131

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

I have a 5 and an 8, and I can tell you things get better in terms of time savings and enjoyment at a few stages:

-Potty training

-Social play with other kids

-Full time school

-Reading

-Interest in Legos and games

I am still coming out of an eight year productivity valley (and my wife's of course was worse), but as Paul says, it's worth it. For me two fun things are when they beat me at a game for the first time and when they say, "Look what I made!"

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