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World Chess Champion Magnus Carlsen Is Now World Fantasy Premier League #1

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Re: World Chess Champion Magnus Carlsen Is Now World Fantasy Premier League #1

#121

Post by Scarblac »

sofista wrote: post #114

In Argentina, where I come from, a couple of GMs, unable to make ends meet with their chess earnings, switched to poker, backgammon and/or bridge, games in which there is a lot of gambling going on, and they made quite a lot of money. I understand that these games are much more similar to chess than a fantasy football game, but it seems that some chess calculation skills are indeed transferable.

I think that the chess skills themselves are not, but the training skills probably are.

Like identifying various aspects of the game, figuring out how they can be trained, and then spending 10+ hours a day on them for months.

Or getting a database of games played by opponents and analyzing them for weaknesses in their play, and knowing how to exploit such weaknesses, that can probably also be done with poker.

Re: World Chess Champion Magnus Carlsen Is Now World Fantasy Premier League #1

#122

Post by littlestymaar »

tryptophan wrote: post #72
Scarblac wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very luck based game, or so it seems. With 7 million players. But last year the world chess champion was top-100 and now he's (at this particular moment) first.

Being good at managing uncertain outcomes is not luck though, although the difference between that and luck is nuanced and this often gets lost in discussion.

There is indeed skill in managing uncertain outcomes and being rank 100k or rank 100 is a clear indicator of a skill difference. But there is indeed luck also, and you can't really tell the skill difference between the world first player and probably the first hundred, because the luck factor weight more than the skill difference at this point.

Re: World Chess Champion Magnus Carlsen Is Now World Fantasy Premier League #1

#124

Post by thom »

crashbunny wrote: post #113
thom wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. I'm willing to believe Magnus is one of the best at this (posted this link because I'm a huge fan!), but it's his job and has been since he was a boy, it's not really magic. And it's just demonstrably not the case that he goes into every game knowing every topical line, not does he really need to.

I'm a big Carlsen fan, he's currently the best chess player in the world, but not all grandmasters think Carlsen or the other top 10 are the best in history. I can't make an informed opinion myself, but I can retell the arguments I've heard used. In the past, players like Bobby Fischer dominated their peers, winning tournaments by 5 games or more. Today, super grandmasters play 20 moves of prep from memory and agree…

I don’t think it’s true that studies show players play less skilfully. At the very least papers like this exist:

https://content.iospress.com/articles/icga-journal/icg0012

But I also think that in a metagame with less equality out of the opening and more blunders, skill was more rewarded in the past - so just look at Magnus’s blitz rating to compare. Either way, the fact is this year Magnus _did_ regularly dominate his peers, despite them all having big teams with thousands of CPU/GPU hours of prep behind them. I know Ben Finegold is never going to be convinced but whatever.

Re: World Chess Champion Magnus Carlsen Is Now World Fantasy Premier League #1

#125

Post by NilsIRL »

tapland wrote: post #68
NilsIRL wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm clueless as well but here is the best thing I could find: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_football_(gridiron) To me this sounds a lot like FIFA (the game by EA), which I'm clueless about as well.

FIFA is you playing a virtual soccer team. Fantasy football is you managing a soccer team roster with points given to your chosen players based on real world performance the past week.

You're still managing a team though

Re: World Chess Champion Magnus Carlsen Is Now World Fantasy Premier League #1

#126

Post by NilsIRL »

tapland wrote: post #68
NilsIRL wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm clueless as well but here is the best thing I could find: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_football_(gridiron) To me this sounds a lot like FIFA (the game by EA), which I'm clueless about as well.

FIFA is you playing a virtual soccer team. Fantasy football is you managing a soccer team roster with points given to your chosen players based on real world performance the past week.

I posted on the wrong top-level comment which might explain the confusion.

I meant to answer to: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21791504

Re: World Chess Champion Magnus Carlsen Is Now World Fantasy Premier League #1

#127

Post by actuator »

thom wrote: post #80
actuator wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it is. Opta is probably what most publications and broadcasters use as well. I don't think there is anyone else who collects stats that deep across so many leagues. Sometimes even I am surprised the details of those stats, like passes by an individual player, distance covered etc.

It's actually a pretty crowded market at this point (I work at a competitor but have worked professionally with their data). The distance-covered sort of stats come from tracking data (usually derived optically from multiple cameras, giving locations of every player and the ball at 20hz or so), which Opta didn't offer directly until their merger with STATS.

Wow, I did not know this. They have special cameras in the grounds or this is just them having access to raw feed from all regular broadcasting cameras.

I would love to read up on how this is recorded, processed and kept if you have any source.

Re: World Chess Champion Magnus Carlsen Is Now World Fantasy Premier League #1

#128

Post by actuator »

petepete wrote: post #120
actuator wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although he plays in a wide forward/winger like position for Liverpool they classify wingers generally as midfielders. Think of this in terms of the classic 4-2-3-1 position(not something LIV uses a lot). Firmino generally becomes the No 9 and he would be classified as forward. Even Son is classified as Mid. Though in the 4-2-3-1 Liverpool played today Salah was the most forward player.

It's a ridiculous decision, even the stats disagree.[0] "Salah was the furthest forward in 8 of Liverpool’s last 10 Premier League games from last season." I imagine it's done for marketing reasons so more people can fit him into their team; same with Son. [0] https://www.fantasyfootballpundit.com/mohamed-salah-forward-...

Yeah, ideally they should be classified as forwards. Though I guess Salah being the furthest forward is more because of Firmino being a False 9 rather than a proper No 9, which makes his case for being considered as a FWD even more valid.

Re: World Chess Champion Magnus Carlsen Is Now World Fantasy Premier League #1

#129

Post by brianwawok »

ZhuanXia wrote: post #25
thom wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course a lot of those players have in turn gone on to gambling and hedge funds.

I often wonder about this in the context of musicians and actors. You would have to be a fool to pick such careers, as the prospects are so dim. Yet because of this dimness the selection pressure is very high on the pool of contenders. So our best actors and musicians are fool/geniuses. Which implies the most innately talented potential musicians and actors are working at a hedge fund or Google DeepMind. And perhaps…

Musican and actor are winner take all (or most markets).

Economics would predict the 10 guys really really good at singing would tour, as they make many millions of dollars.. and the guys that are only OK at singing (but also good at math), go on to be accountants and sit in a desk somewhere. Global demand for accountants is much higher than singers.

Re: World Chess Champion Magnus Carlsen Is Now World Fantasy Premier League #1

#130

Post by thom »

actuator wrote: post #127
thom wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually a pretty crowded market at this point (I work at a competitor but have worked professionally with their data). The distance-covered sort of stats come from tracking data (usually derived optically from multiple cameras, giving locations of every player and the ball at 20hz or so), which Opta didn't offer directly until their merger with STATS.

Wow, I did not know this. They have special cameras in the grounds or this is just them having access to raw feed from all regular broadcasting cameras. I would love to read up on how this is recorded, processed and kept if you have any source.

Most of the big providers require special cameras in the stadium (some up to 16). Some can do this from video feeds (even broadcast quality, which obviously misses some info). You can read about one of the leading providers here:

https://chyronhego.com/products/sports-tracking/tracab-optic...

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