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Having Kids

paulgraham.com

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Re: Having Kids

#521

Post by coldtea »

triangleman wrote: post #131

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

>Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything is about the kids.

So, 35-40 hours of work a week, at an office, and then some family time, and then "at best" a couple hours of free time to work/study whatever you like, plus 7 hours of sleep.

Doesn't it sound better than what 99.9% percent of humanity had to endure for the latest 10,000 years and 80% of humanity still has (including a good 50-70% in the US itself)?

Re: Having Kids

#522

Post by geomark »

glangdale wrote: post #477
buboard wrote: post #199

Worth noting that this is a western city- centric view of children. It's much different for people living in small communities or near parents and other family. Children spend way less time near parents when the neighborhood is familiar and safe enough, and instead spend most of their time playing with other kids. Parents today spend twice as much time with their kids than 2 generations ago, and it's probably not bec…

Of course, in the good/bad old days, sometimes kids just died. My wife talks fondly of free-roaming LA in the 70s, and parenthetically mentions the kid that got molested and the other one that got run over by a car. In general, in the West at least, folks had bigger families and started earlier (just make a new one!). A friend of ours from rural China (Dalian province, I think) talked about how all the kids would go…

I grew up in a more rural area east of San Diego. Very free roam. Kids were spread out but we could bike to each other's houses. A couple of kids at my elementary school died. One in a cave-in of a small cave some friends dug in the side of a cliff. Another when he went for a ride in the 4WD of a teenager that flipped over on a hillside. I wonder what the fatality rate was in the old days versus these days.

Re: Having Kids

#523

Post by coldtea »

throwaway2519 wrote: post #405
lordnacho wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your kids are at the age before school where they are the hardest to deal with. Once a kid gets to school, magic happens. I mean it. - They get tired from learning stuff. And the teachers know how to deal with them. - They learn how to behave in a group. They start having actual friends. - You get a bunch of friends who are in the same situation as you, and you can use their kids to cancel out yours. (AKA playdates)…

> my kids started school at 4. I've put them in full time after school care as well, ending at 6pm > you get them asleep before 8pm > you can give them a book and that will keep them quiet And then people wonder why kids don't listen to and respect their parents when they grow up. You're basically just giving school teachers full control to raise your kids at age of 4, and they only interact with you for 1-2 hours du…

>and they only interact with you for 1-2 hours during the day and don't really know who you are

As if 1-2 hours per day is "little"?

That's not in any way why kids "don't listen to and respect their parents when they grow up".

Kids spent even less "quality time" with their parents (a relatively modern boomer invention) back in the old times when they did fully "listened to and respected" them.

Re: Having Kids

#524

Post by endtime »

sombremesa wrote: post #17
nickreese wrote: post #11

Uhh. Just going to chime in here. It is absolutely OK if you don’t experience the emotions he writes about here. You aren’t broken. I write this because I read and it immediately messaged a few friends who respect Paul as well asking them if I was broken. Everyone experiences parenthood differently. I never had the chemical changes in my brain and often over the past 3 years have realized just how selfish I am when i…

I don't have kids but from what I know about small children they're likely to be a thousand times more selfish than you.

All kids are different, but FWIW, my daughter used to take our her pacifier and stick it in her twin brother's mouth when he was crying. When she was a bit older (maybe three?) she'd often give him the last strawberry or whatever from her plate if he finished first. She's five now, and she's an extremely generous and high empathy kid.

Maybe that's unusual, and on average kids can be selfish (or maybe self-centered), but it's not as black and white as you're describing.

Re: Having Kids

#525

Post by [deleted] »

mrfusion wrote: post #490
throwaway2519 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> my kids started school at 4. I've put them in full time after school care as well, ending at 6pm > you get them asleep before 8pm > you can give them a book and that will keep them quiet And then people wonder why kids don't listen to and respect their parents when they grow up. You're basically just giving school teachers full control to raise your kids at age of 4, and they only interact with you for 1-2 hours du…

Not sure why you’re being downvoted. That also sounds appalling g to me to see your kids 2 hours a day and putting them to bed early on top of that.

[deleted]

Re: Having Kids

#526

Post by larnmar »

citizenkeen wrote: post #511
triangleman wrote: post #131

Hey guys. Anyone else have the experience of having kids, getting a burst of energy, but of course all that energy goes directly back into the kids and house, and you have absolutely no life for 3-5 years or more? Because my kids are 2 and 4 and so far it's been 4 years of no life, no freelance clients, almost no learning/hobbies, just 35-40 hours a week of working as much as I can at the office and then everything i…

My wife did research for grad school related to this, so we went in to this eyes open. Her studies showed that people who have a kid 3 or younger were less happy than equally situated peers. Their first smile is nice, but it's a lot of poop and your peers are going to Europe. If your youngest is 4 or older, there's literally no difference in happiness. Europe is nice. Their first play, them as actual human beings - a…

It’s not that hard to take young kids to Europe.

Re: Having Kids

#527

Post by coldtea »

bryanmgreen wrote: post #459
throwaway2519 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> my kids started school at 4. I've put them in full time after school care as well, ending at 6pm > you get them asleep before 8pm > you can give them a book and that will keep them quiet And then people wonder why kids don't listen to and respect their parents when they grow up. You're basically just giving school teachers full control to raise your kids at age of 4, and they only interact with you for 1-2 hours du…

No clue why you're being downvoted. I too wonder why anyone would want children if they don't actively want to spend time and raise them.

Raising children is not about being a helicopter parent like many Americans understand it. It wasn't even in the US like that, until the 80s or so, when media people and book authors inspired profitable guilt to parents, and the boomers started making pandering and spoiling their kids the norm.

If we're talking about kids less than school age, then sure, parents are with them most of the day. After school age however, 1-2 hours per day with the kids is not "not spending time", it's rather more time than kids historically got.

In fact most kids will turn out Deliverance-level weird if parents insist of spending more time with them. It's up there to messing up your kids with homeschooling... Kids are not there to keep parents company, or for them to make into your image. They are beings of their own, and have interests of their own, and they should be let to do their thing.

Re: Having Kids

#528

Post by kelnos »

lonelappde wrote: post #396
sershe wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons I'm never having kids is seeing just this pattern. For everyone I can recall right now, it lasts forever. They have more time later but the drive is gone. I've actually seen a few of people with a shared hobby and a toddler be like "kids won't stop me from doing X, in fact it's going to be better with kids to teach/inspire/...!", and then they disappear forever (up to 5 years so far). Or (skiing ex…

Be careful, one day you might realize you missed something important. After I'm dead, my kids can continue my work better than I could do it myself.

I would tend to think that, for people truly on the fence, it is much better to not have kids and later regret it, than to have kids and regret that. At least with the former, you can still have an otherwise full life, and you're the only one who bears the brunt of your regret.

If you have kids and regret them, the kids are going to suffer for it, even if you do everything you can to hide that regret from them.

Re: Having Kids

#529

Post by [deleted] »

larnmar wrote: post #526
citizenkeen wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife did research for grad school related to this, so we went in to this eyes open. Her studies showed that people who have a kid 3 or younger were less happy than equally situated peers. Their first smile is nice, but it's a lot of poop and your peers are going to Europe. If your youngest is 4 or older, there's literally no difference in happiness. Europe is nice. Their first play, them as actual human beings - a…

It’s not that hard to take young kids to Europe.

[deleted]
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