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Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

bbc.com

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Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#291

Post by state_less »

duelingjello wrote: post #8
burtonator wrote: post #6

Crows are amazingly intelligent animals. My GF and I went to the beach about a month ago and took our dog. The crows weren't frightened at ALL of our dog. They realized they could basically just 'float' up in the air when he came by using the breeze. The fact that they were amazingly calm about it was really telling. Second. We hid our stuff under a blanket. They realize it's still there as they have item persistence…

Yeap. Food and valuables have to be toddler-proofed around crows. They can also steal your wallet or your keys if you leave them unsecured. And, damn, they're as good as human thieves at reading situations for opportunism.

I was in Nepal having breakfast. Some crows are sitting there watching me eat. I look down to read my book, and in not more than a few seconds, I hear the clinking of dishes. I look up and the crows are flying off with my toast and jam. It was right in front of me, but they were quick enough to get in and out before I could react.

I realized that they are probably aware of my lack of attention to my food and that their in-built modeling of other agents had given them an advantage in this situation. I thought it was pretty impressive.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#292

Post by tachion »

dexen wrote: post #270
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A wild untrained human animal isn't that bright. We can probably operate above the crow level, but maybe not by much. What makes us special is persistent collective learning and abstract communication. Unlike animals, generations of humans don't have to keep re-solving the same problems. As a species we have cumulative persistent memory for techniques and abstractions. That's the real game changer. But it took a surp…

>What makes us special is persistent collective learning and abstract communication. No; passing on knowledge isn't quite sufficient. The key difference is our ability to manipulate objects with hands, and our ability to harness external sources of energy, starting with fire. Cetaceans (in particular orcas and dolphins), chimps, crows, they all are known to develop & pass on language, culture, and knowledge like hunt…

I beg to disagree. I can't quote the sources from the top of my head, but the comment about persistent collective learning and communication seems to be the science view on the matter last time I checked. For example, some non-primates animals and some primates can and in fact use tools to various degrees. The energy harness and fire is a consequence of doing/being able to do these things, not the condition.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#293

Post by myu701 »

bristleworm wrote: post #150
burtonator wrote: post #6

Crows are amazingly intelligent animals. My GF and I went to the beach about a month ago and took our dog. The crows weren't frightened at ALL of our dog. They realized they could basically just 'float' up in the air when he came by using the breeze. The fact that they were amazingly calm about it was really telling. Second. We hid our stuff under a blanket. They realize it's still there as they have item persistence…

That reminds me of the kitchen scene in Jurassic Park: "Unless they figure out how to open doors." :)

In times when I'm in evil-overlord mode, I want to remove all lever-sets and replace them with doorknobs covered in toddler-spinny-thingies.

Doorknobs are not ADA compliant any longer, but if you are on a private island with utah-raptors? knobs.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#294

Post by j8014 »

csomar wrote: post #205
mrtksn wrote: post #25

Previously I heard about crows in Japan leaving nuts on the way of the cars to crash them when traffic lights are red and collecting them the next cycle. This summer I witnessed the exact same thing when I was driving through a particularly jammy traffic light here in Europe. Are these crows inventing the method over and over again independently, like scientists finding the same thing at the same time in different pa…

I wonder if what makes humans "intelligent" is exactly this. Plus we have a 70-90 years of life. Which is long enough to learn and do stuff, compare that to 10-15 years for your average crow. We start bombarding babies with information since a very early age. Parents, are incentivized to teach their babies how to talk, walk, read, write, do stuff, eat, sing, etc... The amount of cognitive exercise is insane. And a hu…

My 10 year old can start a fire, create a shelter, gather/sterilize water, hunt, trap, clean game and cook it. Humans are scary smart compared to other life and can easily pickup survival skills, manipulate their environments to suit them, even as a child.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#298

Post by klenwell »

dta3456 wrote: post #139

When I was a child, I'd spend a lot of time at my grandfathers farm, and one summer he took in an injured crow that hurt its wing. For some strange reason, he named all of his animals Jack, cats, dogs and now crows. So we'd go out in the morning and my grandfather would call out "Jack" and the Dog would come running down the yard, and then next thing you'd see the crow hopping down the yard after the dog. It would ar…

That's a wonderful story. My only New Year's resolution this year was to befriend a crow. So far, no progress. Maybe next year.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#299

Post by blattimwind »

technothrasher wrote: post #177
blattimwind wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What are you gonna do with that .22 pistol, human? Shoot me? At 40 yards? kra-kra-kra!"

That crow is a little over confident. 40 yards isn't all that hard on a crow size target with at .22 pistol, with practice. Back up about another 20 yards and the crow is probably pretty safe.

Crow of course knows how good (or rather, the opposite) of a shot the farmer is.

Re: Crows could be the smartest animal other than primates

#300

Post by danschumann »

I like to think about what would happen on a planet where the most intelligent species wasn't from a primate, but another animal. Can you imagine the societal nuances that a planet of human-level-intelligent crows? What kind of sitcoms they'd have? I mean most tv revolves around sex.. so having eggs and nests would change all their social taboos. How different would "Sex and the City" be if it was crows? So crazy.
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