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Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

zdnet.com

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Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#181

Post by ksec »

zozbot234 wrote: post #25
saagarjha wrote: post #8

Video where this was introduced, which has more details: https://vimeo.com/376180843 Slides: https://www.slideshare.net/KTNUK/digital-security-by-design-...

The slides don't really add much detail. They're just a light introduction to the sort of region-based memory management that was already being used by Cyclone, well before the Rust project was even a thing.

I always knew Rust was picking up from Cyclone, but I was, stupid enough to assume Cyclone was half baked, half finish programming languages with the Ownership idea.

It wasn't until today I did a search on it, and it reached 1.0!

Why wasn't Cyclone being used or continue to be developed?

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#182

Post by techntoke »

mkl wrote: post #132
techntoke wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, if they wanted to make it better they'd adopt some practices and tools from Linux to get common-sense developers interested instead of looking for MS drones that don't know why they do what they do.

They did: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/about Linux tools run on Windows 10 just fine. WSL 2 even uses an actual Linux kernel.

WSL performance is terrible not to mention WSL 2 is still pre-release with lots of bugs and so is their updated terminal app. I don't even think WSL 2 will support Docker, and it is using a broken VM and Plan 9 to share files so you lose most of the performance benefits of Linux. It appears MS is trying to get people to try Linux on Windows and make it bad so that they get a negative first impression.

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#183

Post by Rotareti »

afiori wrote: post #170
Rotareti wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope the next big programming language will be one that is split into two language-variants: the "low-level-variant" and the "high-level-variant". The high-level-variant is a dynamic language with optional typing, which is good for scripting, fast prototyping, fast time-to-market, etc. The low-level-variant is similar to the high-level-variant (same syntax, same features mostly, same documentation), but it has no g…

Proponents would say that julia is both languages at the same time

AFAIK, Julia has a garbage collector. I envision the thing more like a rust split into two variants. One with GC and mandatory typing, one without.

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#184

Post by hu3 »

pjmlp wrote: post #179
hu3 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But yeah, it suffers from having a tiny community. And feature bloat.

Being a modern language not stuck in the 60's language design is not feature bloat.

Orthogonal concepts.

Modern languages can be bloated.

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#185

Post by LeonB »

brobinson wrote: post #68
JNRowe wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a big proponent of F# it annoys me how much one still needs to fight "but M$" arguments if I point out a thing that F# does well. The same thing seems to happen when discussing Haskell with people who know just enough to recognise the influence MSR employees have on it. It almost makes me wonder how they/we can work around that sentiment now. Either hope for generational shift to eventually kill it, or perhaps hav…

My only beef right now with Microsoft is their insistence on having creepy telemetry in everything. As someone _very_ interested in F#, I encountered this recently with both Visual Studio Code and .NET Core. https://github.com/dotnet/cli/issues/3093

The linked thread discusses the telemetry and if you follow it through telemetry is now off by default, opt-in only.

https://github.com/dotnet/cli/issues/10816

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#186

Post by astrodust »

danso wrote: post #110
astrodust wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. That's why people are still super nervous whenever Microsoft dares to embrace something new. Past experience. I'm not saying they're like that today, but that's why some people get all on-edge when Microsoft does things like this.

But he’s not the CEO any longer and he hasn’t been for years. So why is what he did more than a decade ago relevant absent of evidence that he has any direct control of the company today?

Many developers and entrepreneurs had numerous very bad experiences with the Microsoft of the 1990s-2000s and you're expecting them to just move on like nothing happened?

Remember Microsoft tried to kill the internet and could have succeeded if it wasn't for the efforts of many, the US DOJ included, to prevent them from obtaining total control through their operating system monopoly.

You can't go through that and not be skeptical.

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#187

Post by brobinson »

xvilka wrote: post #97
brobinson wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only beef right now with Microsoft is their insistence on having creepy telemetry in everything. As someone _very_ interested in F#, I encountered this recently with both Visual Studio Code and .NET Core. https://github.com/dotnet/cli/issues/3093

You can always switch to the original - the OCaml language.

I spent a while looking at OCaml, but I'd like to use more than one cpu and not have to deal with four standard libraries...

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#188

Post by brobinson »

LeonB wrote: post #185
brobinson wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only beef right now with Microsoft is their insistence on having creepy telemetry in everything. As someone _very_ interested in F#, I encountered this recently with both Visual Studio Code and .NET Core. https://github.com/dotnet/cli/issues/3093

The linked thread discusses the telemetry and if you follow it through telemetry is now off by default, opt-in only. https://github.com/dotnet/cli/issues/10816

I followed the linked threads and I don't see where it says telemetry is off by default. I just see people saying that it _should_ be off by default. Am I missing something?

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#189

Post by LeonB »

brobinson wrote: post #188
LeonB wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linked thread discusses the telemetry and if you follow it through telemetry is now off by default, opt-in only. https://github.com/dotnet/cli/issues/10816

I followed the linked threads and I don't see where it says telemetry is off by default. I just see people saying that it _should_ be off by default. Am I missing something?

Sorry, I misread the threads, I think you're right. There's notification when you install it, but the notification is that it's on by default. The notification also explains how to switch it off (with an environment variable).

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#190

Post by afiori »

Rotareti wrote: post #183
afiori wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proponents would say that julia is both languages at the same time

AFAIK, Julia has a garbage collector. I envision the thing more like a rust split into two variants. One with GC and mandatory typing, one without.

Yes, for sure my suggestion was an incomplete answer, but still you would want the lower language be GC-aware/GC-compatible so I am not sure what the advantages of having two languages would be compared to having a GC language that can have non-GC modules/functions.

We also have an example of something more similar to what you are asking with Javascript+wasm (or better Typescript+wasm). I think they are both a fertile ground for future growth.

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