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Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

zdnet.com

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Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#141

Post by tasogare »

xvilka wrote: post #93
JNRowe wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a big proponent of F# it annoys me how much one still needs to fight "but M$" arguments if I point out a thing that F# does well. The same thing seems to happen when discussing Haskell with people who know just enough to recognise the influence MSR employees have on it. It almost makes me wonder how they/we can work around that sentiment now. Either hope for generational shift to eventually kill it, or perhaps hav…

Why F# was needed in the first place? OCaml[1] is vastly superior, and doesn't require .NET since can be compiled into the native code. Just in the need of the better Windows platform support. And they add more features with time than F# devs.

The access to .net framework libraries is a huge asset. If I recall correctly, Ocaml standard library never nearly that complete, and the language was a bit moribond few years ago.

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#143

Post by olodus »

LessDmesg wrote: post #126
aikah wrote: post #123

I'm surprised Microsoft didn't "invent" their own version of Go yet. Actually I'd use it in a heartbeat over Google's if they add generics to it. Just call it "Micro".

This so much! Go would be a great language if it had generics and no "interface {}". I'd use that over any flavor of Rust any day.

Zig's comptime is a very simple and minimalistic but still incredibly useful and strong approach to generics. I think that could fit into a language like that. I many ways I find Zig as keeping the minimalism trait that Go has (which they both take from C). But I get that people want a gc sometimes.

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#144

Post by jammygit »

blub wrote: post #139
smadurange wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you are just so bogged down in history that you have a difficulty changing your opinion. Few decades is a long time in our line of work. Microsoft didn't change out of charity or ethics. They were forced by the direction industry was heading as a whole. Cloud, opensource software, Google, AWS started making Microsoft irrelevant unless they changed.

Bogged down in history. One has to admire at least a little bit this attempt at gaslighting someone into not trusting their own experiences and Microsoft's long negative track-record which they're still adding to. The telemetry scandal which has been reported on everywhere proves that Microsoft just changed into another Google. They're still collecting telemetry today, in spite of all the protests. A few hours isn't…

“A few hours(...)”

Are you referring to this?

https://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/infosec/atom-community...

The telemetry in windows is ongoing so I’m just wondering if I missed something new

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#145

Post by jammygit »

pjmlp wrote: post #61
deogeo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As part of the BSA, they still lobby for software patents today . The OOXML Office format they used to continue pushing Office lock-in is very recent: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice_OOXML They tried their best to keep the list of their Android patents secret, so that they could not be worked around, and they abused their patent on the FAT filesystem as recently as 2012: https://www.howtogeek.com/1837…

Less propaganda that the whole "do no evil" stuff. Windows 10 telemetry is a child's game compared how much Google and FB spy on people's lives, yet most MS haters just jump of joy to use any tech that comes out from them. Legions of US parents just put their kids under Google surveillance getting them Chromebooks.

OS spying is so much more invasive than application or service spying because you can’t opt out as easily. You can go without Facebook but a lot of people just need windows (for their jobs if nothing else, though I sure wish unity3d ran better on Linux and that more games ran smoothly on Linux)

The OS is also theoretically able to watch what you do in other services by monitoring keystrokes etc, where Facebook merely dreams of such things

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#146

Post by krcz »

zaarn wrote: post #131
kerng wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what the next big language iteration will bring. It's been a while that I got excited about a new language, last time was probably C#, but that's 20 years ago... Crazy, that there hasn't been any new language revolution sort of how Java was one. But maybe I should look more into new things like Julia, but they seem a bit niche.

I believe the next evolution will be to combine Rust and Lisp; a programming language as flexible as LISP without giving up the safety of Rust, including a typesystem that can be entirely coded in the language itself, safely.

I have something similar in mind: I want to have homoiconicity but with typed data underneath (instead of just untyped lists) in order to add some structure and let compiler help you with macros. That plus advanced type system with gradual verification. I'm in early exploration phase, but I have some ideas written down: https://github.com/krcz/zygote .

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#147

Post by jaitsu »

LessDmesg wrote: post #126
aikah wrote: post #123

I'm surprised Microsoft didn't "invent" their own version of Go yet. Actually I'd use it in a heartbeat over Google's if they add generics to it. Just call it "Micro".

This so much! Go would be a great language if it had generics and no "interface {}". I'd use that over any flavor of Rust any day.

You may, or may not, be aware of this - https://blog.golang.org/why-generics

I believe it's still in the roadmap for Go 2.0

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#148

Post by Rotareti »

kerng wrote: post #127
LessDmesg wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This so much! Go would be a great language if it had generics and no "interface {}". I'd use that over any flavor of Rust any day.

I'm curious what the next big language iteration will bring. It's been a while that I got excited about a new language, last time was probably C#, but that's 20 years ago... Crazy, that there hasn't been any new language revolution sort of how Java was one. But maybe I should look more into new things like Julia, but they seem a bit niche.

I hope the next big programming language will be one that is split into two language-variants: the "low-level-variant" and the "high-level-variant".

The high-level-variant is a dynamic language with optional typing, which is good for scripting, fast prototyping, fast time-to-market, etc.

The low-level-variant is similar to the high-level-variant (same syntax, same features mostly, same documentation), but it has no garbage collector, typing is mandatory and it runs fast like C/C++/Rust. Compiled packages that are written in the low-level-variant can be used from the high-level-variant with minimal effort or without additional effort at all. The tooling to achieve this comes with the language.

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#149

Post by loudmax »

mkl wrote: post #132
techntoke wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, if they wanted to make it better they'd adopt some practices and tools from Linux to get common-sense developers interested instead of looking for MS drones that don't know why they do what they do.

They did: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/about Linux tools run on Windows 10 just fine. WSL 2 even uses an actual Linux kernel.

Unfortunately, they didn't make the far more compatible step of getting Windows to run on Linux.

Re: Microsoft is creating a new Rust-based programming language for secure coding

#150

Post by bovermyer »

Rotareti wrote: post #148
kerng wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what the next big language iteration will bring. It's been a while that I got excited about a new language, last time was probably C#, but that's 20 years ago... Crazy, that there hasn't been any new language revolution sort of how Java was one. But maybe I should look more into new things like Julia, but they seem a bit niche.

I hope the next big programming language will be one that is split into two language-variants: the "low-level-variant" and the "high-level-variant". The high-level-variant is a dynamic language with optional typing, which is good for scripting, fast prototyping, fast time-to-market, etc. The low-level-variant is similar to the high-level-variant (same syntax, same features mostly, same documentation), but it has no g…

While it's not exactly there, this kind of describes Ruby and Crystal.
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