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Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#181

Post by femto »

thepete2 wrote: post #120
Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #18

This happens pretty much everywhere with every online map. Kashmir, Taiwan, Western Sahara, etc. etc. Apple doing it for one country is not particularly news. The only major-league mapping site I know that doesn't do local alterations is OpenStreetMap, and that's because OSM's attitude is "you want the map to show something else? sure, download the raw data and host your own instance".

IIRC OSM's attitude is "map what's on the ground", so if people in Crimea believe they are in Russia that's what OSM should show.

To that end, there are proposals for OSM to handle disputed boundaries.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/M...

The idea is that OSM captures the multiple views of the boundary in dispute, allowing the user to choose their rendering.

Whilst good in theory, it's probably not different to other's approach in practise. Thinking people can choose to see a boundary as disputed, whilst nationalists on either side can choose to see it as soley theirs, thus amplifying their own echo chamber. The main difference from others is that the choice of rendering is potentially up to the individual, due to the availability of all the data, but in practise most people will be using a provider who has already made the choice for them.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#182

Post by cpursley »

trymas wrote: post #170
polski-g wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ukrainian/Russian mainland war is a separate issue from Russians living in Crimea wanting to be reunited with their countrymen.

Where did you het this idea? If they want to be reunited, then how about they use one way ticket to Moscow and enjoy the motherland..

I agree with this 100%. Russia is huge and big enough. Just move instead of bringing death and destruction to your village.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#183

Post by drran »

brutt wrote: post #134
polski-g wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ukrainian/Russian mainland war is a separate issue from Russians living in Crimea wanting to be reunited with their countrymen.

Ukrainians, which are living in RF, are wanting to be reunited with Ukraine, so let's start the war!

Hmm. How you will slice Russia? Even USA cannot do that, because of (real) fear of MAD. It's better to not spread something like that. Empire will fall on it own, just wait.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#184

Post by cpursley »

brutt wrote: post #105
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by “re-gained” independence? They were part of Russia for centuries prior to that. That was them gaining independence for the first time since like the 1500s or so?

Russia doesn't exist now, because it renamed itself into Ukraine, to avoid confusion with bloody Russian Empire. Russian Federation ≠ Russian Empire (doesn't exist) ≠ Russia (now Ukraine) ≠ town of Russia (now Old Russa). BTW. Romania ≠ Rome (now Italy).

Interesting perspective. Are you suggesting Ukraine is the real Russian people? Also, where does that leave Belorussia?

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#185

Post by jmccorm »

yogthos wrote: post #162
hyko wrote: post #148

Apple enjoys all the privileges of being based in a western liberal democracy, but it’s starting to feel like they don’t really believe in those values. All that guff about privacy, the environment, minority rights etc, yet when faced with real tyranny they will do literally anything in return for market access. The lesson is clear: don’t expect soft power alone to topple the autocrats of the 21st Century.

Show me a single corporation that has values beyond making a profit.

A nonprofit corporation is one answer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_corporation

But if you’re not being literal when you ask about values beyond profit, then as an easy example: Valve. They believe in promoting PC gaming and moving it forward. I think their service (and products) represents that value fairly well, and sometimes at the expense of profit.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#186

Post by suprfsat »

Razengan wrote: post #180
evgenyp wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kashmir has been disputed between India and Pakistan for several decades now.

Has anybody thought of asking the people of the disputed region which country they’d like to be a part of?

Yes, and 97% of Crimea voted to be part of Russia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#187

Post by cpursley »

hyko wrote: post #148

Apple enjoys all the privileges of being based in a western liberal democracy, but it’s starting to feel like they don’t really believe in those values. All that guff about privacy, the environment, minority rights etc, yet when faced with real tyranny they will do literally anything in return for market access. The lesson is clear: don’t expect soft power alone to topple the autocrats of the 21st Century.

Get over yourself. The USA overthrew and annexed Hawaii a little more than 100 years ago. Not to mention Texas, Puerto Rico, etc.

When we start talking about giving back those territories, I'll start taking everyone's opinion on Crimea seriously.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#188

Post by koheripbal »

adrianmonk wrote: post #95
treden wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really seems like the Right Way(tm) to approach this because it acknowledges that the google isn't attempting to be an authoritative source for what's really a subjective truth, and it presents the "most true" version of reality based on where you're coming from. And has the added benefit, one imagines, of being even more infuriating to those trying to push their One True Truth down everyone else's throats.

> google isn't attempting to be an authoritative source for what's really a subjective truth There is an objective truth here, though, that could be shown (if it were allowed). You could show it as disputed. That the dispute exists is an objective truth. The very fact that different states require you to display it differently is proof of that. > presents the "most true" version of reality based on where you're comin…

Take that argument even further, and a LOT more areas would suddenly start showing up on Google Maps as disputed.

Would Native Americans start petitioning Google to alter maps of Arizona?

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#189

Post by trymas »

cpursley wrote: post #182
trymas wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you het this idea? If they want to be reunited, then how about they use one way ticket to Moscow and enjoy the motherland..

I agree with this 100%. Russia is huge and big enough. Just move instead of bringing death and destruction to your village.

And that's what former Soviet citizens living in Ukraine's Crimea should've done...

But I guess strong helping hand from father putin was just too convenient for them..

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