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Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#91

Post by the_af »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #85
anotheryou wrote: post #26

The sentence about google maps is wrong. Google shows whatever you want to see. https://i.imgur.com/2HaIhPh.jpg Google.com.ua users see a state/province border (top image) Google.de users a disputed international boundary (middle image) Google.ru users see an undisputed international boundary and Russian spellings of city names (bottom image). (and I think there are generally no borders shown in the oceans) I made th…

Wonder if the Falkland Islands are labeled Malvinas on Google Maps when viewed in Argentina.

It displays "Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas)".

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#92

Post by cpursley »

mzs wrote: post #83
ajross wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not justifying the recent annexation It really sounds like you are, though. I mean the principle most of us care about here isn't about matching iOS app text to "the linguistic realities on the ground", it's about not condoning the literal invasion of neighboring countries (by a nuclear power, no less). > Also, the infrastructure has improved significantly since the Russian takeover Also sounds very much like a…

Want to know the worst part? Chase* edited his comment to add those parts you quoted. It's not surprising I guess he has "CCCP" on his IG avatar: https://imgur.com/Oh1OlfD * https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=cpursley >about: chasepursley.com

Oh, you got me - I'm a communist!!! Or a Putin sympathizer (I always mix up which one is the more pointed insult).

Anyways, that was taken outside of an interesting museum in Sevastopol. The entire bay there is pretty cool. You can take a boat tour around it. There's a bunch of old USSR ships in various levels of decay as well as some of the newer stuff (the main reason for the annexation was for control of this warm water port btw):

Museum of the Black Sea Fleet Lenina St, 11, Sevastopol

https://maps.app.goo.gl/NmSHU6Tpnc4ZiUbw9

My favorite is the "secret" underground submarine base in Balaklava. Fascinating place that until recently was off limits to Westerners:

Voyenno-Istoricheskiy Muzey Fortifikatsionnykh Sooruzheniy 1 99000, Marmurova St, Sevastopol

https://maps.app.goo.gl/z7o7moKc8t4Fbch66

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#93

Post by xenospn »

FpUser wrote: post #63
nickpeterson wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia has the power to take a portion of territory and they did. The means through which they did it is considered wrong, but it doesn't change the reality of who controls the area. Maps of political borders are maps of influence, not maps of ideals. I'll also note that thoughts and prayers are not terribly useful in these situations. Force responds to force, nothing else. I expect Russia to continue doing these sor…

I expect Russia to continue doing these sorts of things while the world frets. I think the situation with Crimea is unique as there is a set of multiple historical, racial, political etc. etc. factors not present anywhere else. What else could Russia possibly annex without triggering major war and world mayhem?

Northern Georgia.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#94

Post by MikusR »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #72
varjag wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA used to depict Baltic states as Soviet-occupied independent states on the maps, and didn't budge until USSR fell apart and the countries regained independence. Growing a spine to stand up for what is right helps. Appeasing a bully is certainly going to cement status quo.

What do you mean by “re-gained” independence? They were part of Russia for centuries prior to that. That was them gaining independence for the first time since like the 1500s or so?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_states

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#95

Post by adrianmonk »

treden wrote: post #35
anotheryou wrote: post #26

The sentence about google maps is wrong. Google shows whatever you want to see. https://i.imgur.com/2HaIhPh.jpg Google.com.ua users see a state/province border (top image) Google.de users a disputed international boundary (middle image) Google.ru users see an undisputed international boundary and Russian spellings of city names (bottom image). (and I think there are generally no borders shown in the oceans) I made th…

This really seems like the Right Way(tm) to approach this because it acknowledges that the google isn't attempting to be an authoritative source for what's really a subjective truth, and it presents the "most true" version of reality based on where you're coming from. And has the added benefit, one imagines, of being even more infuriating to those trying to push their One True Truth down everyone else's throats.

> google isn't attempting to be an authoritative source for what's really a subjective truth

There is an objective truth here, though, that could be shown (if it were allowed). You could show it as disputed. That the dispute exists is an objective truth. The very fact that different states require you to display it differently is proof of that.

> presents the "most true" version of reality based on where you're coming from

Normally I shy away from this terminology, but let's call it what it is: propaganda. Tech companies (Google, Apple) don't custom-tailor their maps because they want to. They do it because the states use leverage to force them into it. And the states do it to promote the idea that the disputed territory is theirs.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#96

Post by dang »

TurkishPoptart wrote: post #33
xxpor wrote: post #17

Russia only has 144 million people. Phones haven't been commoditized like they have in China with WeChat. They only have 15% market share. Why doesn't Apple tell Russia to shove it where the sun doesn't shine?

Because Tim Cook is worthless and spineless.

Please don't post personal attacks or call names in HN comments. Perhaps you don't owe billionaire CEOs better, but you owe this community better if you're participating here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#97

Post by saalweachter »

keymone wrote: post #70
mzs wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it adds ", Crimea, Russia" to the end of "Simferopol" in Weather.app but does not on the iPhone in US I just tried here.

Yes, I also noted this. The question is what does it show for people in Ukraine?

Are you including Crimea when you ask that question?

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#98

Post by zzzcpan »

cpursley wrote: post #36
zzzcpan wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vast majority of people in Crimea are Russian speakers (as well as being ethnically Russian), not Ukrainian. It's been that way since the Russian Empire conquered the peninsula from the Ottomans in 1783. In fact, there's nearly as many Tartar (descendents of Ottomans) speakers in Crimea than Ukrainian. This is misleading and factually incorrect. Everyone who speaks Russian also speaks Ukrainian in Ukraine, exce…

Yes, this is factually correct - just Google around for Crimea language maps. While this is true of mainland Ukraine (multilingual), Crimea has a different history. It was Russian speakers from the Russian Empire who displaced Tatars (a Turkish language). There was never a significant Ukrainian speaking population in Crimea. Most Crimeans don't speak any Ukrainian. Just because you don't agree with Russian politics d…

> Most Crimeans don't speak any Ukrainian.

No, most Crimeans do speak both Russian and Ukrainian, just like everyone else in Ukraine, since Ukrainian is the only official language and it's pretty much impossible to not be exposed to both languages, especially in education and media. After the fall of Soviet Union all the ethnic Russians in Ukraine (incl. Crimea) had no way of avoiding it and do speak Ukrainian.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#99

Post by DonHopkins »

naz wrote: post #38
treden wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really seems like the Right Way(tm) to approach this because it acknowledges that the google isn't attempting to be an authoritative source for what's really a subjective truth, and it presents the "most true" version of reality based on where you're coming from. And has the added benefit, one imagines, of being even more infuriating to those trying to push their One True Truth down everyone else's throats.

It's also exactly what Apple is doing in this situation > The region is now displayed as Russian territory on Apple Maps and Weather, when viewed from inside Russia.

To be fair, Apple should also classify the White House as Russian territory.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#100

Post by SebastianKra »

ir77 wrote: post #4

i'm a big fan of apple products and definitely bought into apple's stance -- but now i'm starting to think it's nothing more than a convenient branding campaign that only works in the USA. all these aspects that apple markets in the USA seem to be completely negotiable anywhere in the world, and i wonder how long before they can also become negotiable in the USA. in the USA, because of fairly well established democra…

What you're indirectly saying is: Apple should break the law in countries that don't follow western ideals. This is a slipppery slope. Do you really want companies to fight over what they think is morally right?

...because then get ready for Xiaomi sending the floor plan from your Roomba straight to the chinese government.

...or what if Telegram suddenly started banning gay users because that's obviously wrong and immoral by Russian standards?

...or what if American Ad-Companies decided that they "morally disagree" with GDPR.

Just like any individual person, Companies can fight for their ideals as long as they follow the law of wherever they are.

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