Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#141

Post by trymas » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 8:18 PM UTC

Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #18

This happens pretty much everywhere with every online map. Kashmir, Taiwan, Western Sahara, etc. etc. Apple doing it for one country is not particularly news. The only major-league mapping site I know that doesn't do local alterations is OpenStreetMap, and that's because OSM's attitude is "you want the map to show something else? sure, download the raw data and host your own instance".

> This happens pretty much everywhere with every online map. Kashmir, Taiwan, Western Sahara, etc. etc. Apple doing it for one country is not particularly news.

Exactly. Couple days ago, I have entered "Palestine" into google maps. It did not highlight any territory and just showed me generic location of Middle East. On mobile it did not relocate map view at all.

AFAIK with disputed territories it was always like that - it depends what you search and from where you search. Names, borders will be different and IMO it's fine as reality is that regarding locations there's sometimes no clear answer who controls it and what name it has.

IIRC there's an island on a river in Europe where it is exchanged between countries weekly (or daily, don't remember)..

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#142

Post by keiferski » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 8:19 PM UTC

FpUser wrote: post #63

nickpeterson wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia has the power to take a portion of territory and they did. The means through which they did it is considered wrong, but it doesn't change the reality of who controls the area. Maps of political borders are maps of influence, not maps of ideals. I'll also note that thoughts and prayers are not terribly useful in these situations. Force responds to force, nothing else. I expect Russia to continue doing these sor…

I expect Russia to continue doing these sorts of things while the world frets. I think the situation with Crimea is unique as there is a set of multiple historical, racial, political etc. etc. factors not present anywhere else. What else could Russia possibly annex without triggering major war and world mayhem?

The only real answer to this question is probably Belarus.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#143

Post by treden » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 8:30 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #119

anotheryou wrote: post #26

The sentence about google maps is wrong. Google shows whatever you want to see. https://i.imgur.com/2HaIhPh.jpg Google.com.ua users see a state/province border (top image) Google.de users a disputed international boundary (middle image) Google.ru users see an undisputed international boundary and Russian spellings of city names (bottom image). (and I think there are generally no borders shown in the oceans) I made th…

I find this contextual reality somehow funny. Can I have a google.1600.es too ? just so I can enjoy a larger empire.

Yes, but only if you access from within Madrid.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#144

Post by bitwize » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 8:33 PM UTC

No shit. It is literally a crime in some countries to suggest that some piece of land which they consider part of their territory, is not part of their territory. Microsoft ran into this with Kashmir in Windows 95.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#145

Post by dmix » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 8:33 PM UTC

I learned early in my web dev career that the India northern map one is a very touchy subject if you intend to target Indians with your web service.

You have to be careful not to take some random map off the internet when using them in the design.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#146

Post by trymas » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 8:48 PM UTC

cpursley wrote: post #10

> However, it uses the Russian spelling of Crimean place names on its maps in Russia, rather than the Ukrainian spelling. The vast majority of people in Crimea are Russian speakers (as well as being ethnically Russian). It's been that way since the Russian Empire conquered the peninsula from the Ottomans in 1783. In fact, there's nearly as many Tartar (descendents of Ottomans) speakers in Crimea than Ukrainian. Last…

> Also, the infrastructure has improved significantly since the Russian takeover (unfortunately Ukraine being poor, neglected the peninsula after the collapse of the USSR) so getting around is easier now.

Ukraine, after Soviet Union crumbled was always under the foot of Russian Federation. It is the poorest performer of any country which became independent after Soviet occupation. It never managed to properly "westernize", because Russian influence and bullying was strong. Russian cronies in the government and Crimea was literally a Russian naval base. Due to strong influence from the East, eastern Ukraine population was mentally stuck in the "good old Soviet times".

After Maidan in 2014 and Russian friendly Ukrainian president was toppled for dropping trade agreements from EU, Putin clearly saw that he may lose control of the naval bases to the Black Sea, so decided to take Crimea by power.

Crimea to Russia right now is just propaganda to push agenda for the rest of Ukraine and to the Russians as well (oh look how great you'll live in the Mother Russia). Most of the Russia except for Moscow and St. Petersburg is in pretty poor and rough state.

P.S. sorry for my English. Non native speaker. Also opinion is mine and speaking from my memory, if I am not correct please correct me.

I am talking as a person whose country was at the same position as Ukraine 30 years ago, but now average Joe is economically 5-10 times better than average Ukrainian. Ukraine is poor because it's 20-30 years late to free itself from Soviet/Russian shambles.

Edit: also I want to add that for Russia this stunt did cost huge amounts from cash reserves and rubble have lost half of it's value which has not recovered to this day, which made locals "very happy".

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#147

Post by colechristensen » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 8:48 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #145

I learned early in my web dev career that the India northern map one is a very touchy subject if you intend to target Indians with your web service. You have to be careful not to take some random map off the internet when using them in the design.

What are the issues at play in northern India?

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#148

Post by hyko » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 8:50 PM UTC

Apple enjoys all the privileges of being based in a western liberal democracy, but it’s starting to feel like they don’t really believe in those values. All that guff about privacy, the environment, minority rights etc, yet when faced with real tyranny they will do literally anything in return for market access. The lesson is clear: don’t expect soft power alone to topple the autocrats of the 21st Century.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#149

Post by evgenyp » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 8:52 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #147

dmix wrote: post #145

I learned early in my web dev career that the India northern map one is a very touchy subject if you intend to target Indians with your web service. You have to be careful not to take some random map off the internet when using them in the design.

What are the issues at play in northern India?

Kashmir has been disputed between India and Pakistan for several decades now.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#150

Post by gfiorav » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 8:54 PM UTC

Not really surprised to see this behaviour from Apple. They've also blocked LGBTI watchfaces in Russia. I know all other companies do this too, but I wonder: If Apple can't do it... then who can? We need some bravery.