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Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#161

Post by gsich »

adrianmonk wrote: post #95
treden wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really seems like the Right Way(tm) to approach this because it acknowledges that the google isn't attempting to be an authoritative source for what's really a subjective truth, and it presents the "most true" version of reality based on where you're coming from. And has the added benefit, one imagines, of being even more infuriating to those trying to push their One True Truth down everyone else's throats.

> google isn't attempting to be an authoritative source for what's really a subjective truth There is an objective truth here, though, that could be shown (if it were allowed). You could show it as disputed. That the dispute exists is an objective truth. The very fact that different states require you to display it differently is proof of that. > presents the "most true" version of reality based on where you're comin…

It's not objective though. Countries have arbitrary borders. So if people think those are wrong, who am I to say that they are wrong?

So if you take Crimea, for both Russia and Ukraine it's undisputed. Both think it's theirs. For other countries not, making it no longer objective.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#162

Post by yogthos »

hyko wrote: post #148

Apple enjoys all the privileges of being based in a western liberal democracy, but it’s starting to feel like they don’t really believe in those values. All that guff about privacy, the environment, minority rights etc, yet when faced with real tyranny they will do literally anything in return for market access. The lesson is clear: don’t expect soft power alone to topple the autocrats of the 21st Century.

Show me a single corporation that has values beyond making a profit.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#163

Post by Rexxar »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #85
anotheryou wrote: post #26

The sentence about google maps is wrong. Google shows whatever you want to see. https://i.imgur.com/2HaIhPh.jpg Google.com.ua users see a state/province border (top image) Google.de users a disputed international boundary (middle image) Google.ru users see an undisputed international boundary and Russian spellings of city names (bottom image). (and I think there are generally no borders shown in the oceans) I made th…

Wonder if the Falkland Islands are labeled Malvinas on Google Maps when viewed in Argentina.

Different name depending on language is not necessarily a sign of a political dispute (even if it is in this particular case).

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#164

Post by trianglem »

Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #18

This happens pretty much everywhere with every online map. Kashmir, Taiwan, Western Sahara, etc. etc. Apple doing it for one country is not particularly news. The only major-league mapping site I know that doesn't do local alterations is OpenStreetMap, and that's because OSM's attitude is "you want the map to show something else? sure, download the raw data and host your own instance".

What’s disputed in the Western Sahara?

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#165

Post by sukilot »

Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #18

This happens pretty much everywhere with every online map. Kashmir, Taiwan, Western Sahara, etc. etc. Apple doing it for one country is not particularly news. The only major-league mapping site I know that doesn't do local alterations is OpenStreetMap, and that's because OSM's attitude is "you want the map to show something else? sure, download the raw data and host your own instance".

Only organizations that need to operate under the graces of an authority (for reasons of physical or financial security) are beholden to that authority. A volunteer organization in US (or wherever OSM is) has nothing to lose to Russia, India, China, etc.

Russia, China, etc could still block OSM at a firewall if they choose.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#166

Post by sukilot »

treden wrote: post #35
anotheryou wrote: post #26

The sentence about google maps is wrong. Google shows whatever you want to see. https://i.imgur.com/2HaIhPh.jpg Google.com.ua users see a state/province border (top image) Google.de users a disputed international boundary (middle image) Google.ru users see an undisputed international boundary and Russian spellings of city names (bottom image). (and I think there are generally no borders shown in the oceans) I made th…

This really seems like the Right Way(tm) to approach this because it acknowledges that the google isn't attempting to be an authoritative source for what's really a subjective truth, and it presents the "most true" version of reality based on where you're coming from. And has the added benefit, one imagines, of being even more infuriating to those trying to push their One True Truth down everyone else's throats.

A TLD isn't where you are viewing from, it is what you are viewing. GeoIP is where you are viewing from.

The difference matters for things like GDPR.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#167

Post by sukilot »

hyko wrote: post #148

Apple enjoys all the privileges of being based in a western liberal democracy, but it’s starting to feel like they don’t really believe in those values. All that guff about privacy, the environment, minority rights etc, yet when faced with real tyranny they will do literally anything in return for market access. The lesson is clear: don’t expect soft power alone to topple the autocrats of the 21st Century.

You expect Apple to do something that the US government isn't even capable of?

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#168

Post by sukilot »

mzs wrote: post #37

Minister for Foreign Affairs of Ukraine: https://twitter.com/VPrystaiko/status/1199725757762850819 >IPhones are great products. Seriously, though, @Apple, please, please, stick to high-tech and entertainment. Global politics is not your strong side. #CrimeaIsUkraine

That's cheap propaganda with fake casual tone. Apple has to do something with Crimea on the map, and anything they choose is global politics. Or is MFA of Ukraine asking Apple to stop mapping Crimea completely?

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#169

Post by sukilot »

ponsin wrote: post #157

I don't know the specifics of Crimea that well but there should be some easy heuristics to see who owns what country. - When items are sold, which country collects sales tax? - Who provides the police, driver license, mail? - If there are elections, who to the people vote for? Does Crimea not have simple answers to those questions?

Government is a legal fiction. The answers are never simple.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#170

Post by trymas »

polski-g wrote: post #110
keymone wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, you’re conflating language with national identity here, second you’re completely ignoring Crimean tatars that we’re repressed and mass deported from Crimea by Stalin, third you’re not making any sense anyway, because just because major chunk of local population wants to secede - can’t be ground for annexation and starting war, that’s just idiotic.

The Ukrainian/Russian mainland war is a separate issue from Russians living in Crimea wanting to be reunited with their countrymen.

Where did you het this idea? If they want to be reunited, then how about they use one way ticket to Moscow and enjoy the motherland..
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