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Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#81

Post by keymone »

polski-g wrote: post #11
cpursley wrote: post #10

> However, it uses the Russian spelling of Crimean place names on its maps in Russia, rather than the Ukrainian spelling. The vast majority of people in Crimea are Russian speakers (as well as being ethnically Russian). It's been that way since the Russian Empire conquered the peninsula from the Ottomans in 1783. In fact, there's nearly as many Tartar (descendents of Ottomans) speakers in Crimea than Ukrainian. Last…

The majority of the people in Crimea are and were Russian at the time of vote for annexation. It makes sense that genetic Russians would want to reunite with their people.

First, you’re conflating language with national identity here, second you’re completely ignoring Crimean tatars that we’re repressed and mass deported from Crimea by Stalin, third you’re not making any sense anyway, because just because major chunk of local population wants to secede - can’t be ground for annexation and starting war, that’s just idiotic.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#83

Post by mzs »

ajross wrote: post #66
cpursley wrote: post #10

> However, it uses the Russian spelling of Crimean place names on its maps in Russia, rather than the Ukrainian spelling. The vast majority of people in Crimea are Russian speakers (as well as being ethnically Russian). It's been that way since the Russian Empire conquered the peninsula from the Ottomans in 1783. In fact, there's nearly as many Tartar (descendents of Ottomans) speakers in Crimea than Ukrainian. Last…

> I'm not justifying the recent annexation It really sounds like you are, though. I mean the principle most of us care about here isn't about matching iOS app text to "the linguistic realities on the ground", it's about not condoning the literal invasion of neighboring countries (by a nuclear power, no less). > Also, the infrastructure has improved significantly since the Russian takeover Also sounds very much like a…

Want to know the worst part? Chase* edited his comment to add those parts you quoted. It's not surprising I guess he has "CCCP" on his IG avatar: https://imgur.com/Oh1OlfD

* https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=cpursley

>about: chasepursley.com

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#84

Post by MLR »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #72
varjag wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA used to depict Baltic states as Soviet-occupied independent states on the maps, and didn't budge until USSR fell apart and the countries regained independence. Growing a spine to stand up for what is right helps. Appeasing a bully is certainly going to cement status quo.

What do you mean by “re-gained” independence? They were part of Russia for centuries prior to that. That was them gaining independence for the first time since like the 1500s or so?

They were independent in the interwar period, technically lots of the Western USSR/former Russian Empire formed independent states after the First World War but only the Baltic states are usually considered to have been occupied by the USSR AFAIK.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#85

Post by Mountain_Skies »

anotheryou wrote: post #26

The sentence about google maps is wrong. Google shows whatever you want to see. https://i.imgur.com/2HaIhPh.jpg Google.com.ua users see a state/province border (top image) Google.de users a disputed international boundary (middle image) Google.ru users see an undisputed international boundary and Russian spellings of city names (bottom image). (and I think there are generally no borders shown in the oceans) I made th…

Wonder if the Falkland Islands are labeled Malvinas on Google Maps when viewed in Argentina.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#86

Post by cpursley »

imjasonmiller wrote: post #78
cpursley wrote: post #10

> However, it uses the Russian spelling of Crimean place names on its maps in Russia, rather than the Ukrainian spelling. The vast majority of people in Crimea are Russian speakers (as well as being ethnically Russian). It's been that way since the Russian Empire conquered the peninsula from the Ottomans in 1783. In fact, there's nearly as many Tartar (descendents of Ottomans) speakers in Crimea than Ukrainian. Last…

> The vast majority of people in Crimea are Russian speakers (as well as being ethnically Russian). It's been that way since the Russian Empire conquered the peninsula from the Ottomans in 1783. Where did you find population data before 1879? I have looked at the linked data before and it was called the first Russian census [1]. If I am not mistaken, the data at that time shows Tatars still being the biggest group at…

We're not in disagreement. The displacement of Crimean Tartars was not immediate. Then later, the deportation of them under Stalin and Beria to the Soviet *stans (which was terrible and horrifying). After the fall of the USSR, a large number of the Tartars returned to Crimea (I once had an interesting conversation with one on a flight who now lives in the US).

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#87

Post by Rebelgecko »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #72
varjag wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA used to depict Baltic states as Soviet-occupied independent states on the maps, and didn't budge until USSR fell apart and the countries regained independence. Growing a spine to stand up for what is right helps. Appeasing a bully is certainly going to cement status quo.

What do you mean by “re-gained” independence? They were part of Russia for centuries prior to that. That was them gaining independence for the first time since like the 1500s or so?

I believe they were all independent for at least a short time between WW1 and WW2.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#88

Post by golemotron »

derefr wrote: post #64
golemotron wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From a "change from the inside" perspective, Apple can make more of a positive difference in pushing forward their agenda for countries like Russia, by staying in the Russian market, complying with a few government demands How did that work in China? More to the point, companies are not nations or governments. Having agendas for countries is not their place.

> How did that work in China? China is mostly what I was referring to, honestly. An iOS device that can run five secure-messaging apps instead of ten is still better than an Android device that's been potentially wiretapped during last-mile delivery to the customer. (This is the same reason that contracts from Western governments propped up RIM for a while, before Apple became a viable replacement for them. A US gove…

That's a bit fuzzy. If you want to carry that argument further, replace employees with shareholders. Re the messaging you refer to, it's good PR and it would occur without employee activism.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#89

Post by varjag »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #72
varjag wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA used to depict Baltic states as Soviet-occupied independent states on the maps, and didn't budge until USSR fell apart and the countries regained independence. Growing a spine to stand up for what is right helps. Appeasing a bully is certainly going to cement status quo.

What do you mean by “re-gained” independence? They were part of Russia for centuries prior to that. That was them gaining independence for the first time since like the 1500s or so?

They became independent around 1918 and occupied in 1940. Plenty of the modern European nation-states emerged in 20th century, including Poland, Norway, Hungary.. would you dispute statehood of those?

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#90

Post by scarface74 »

ir77 wrote: post #4

i'm a big fan of apple products and definitely bought into apple's stance -- but now i'm starting to think it's nothing more than a convenient branding campaign that only works in the USA. all these aspects that apple markets in the USA seem to be completely negotiable anywhere in the world, and i wonder how long before they can also become negotiable in the USA. in the USA, because of fairly well established democra…

That’s true for all companies. Do you think that Facebook could take the “principled stand” of not putting their servers in countries with non democratically elected governments if any of those countries actually allowed FaceBook? Of course they can be principled about not putting their servers in China since FB isn’t allowed there anyway.
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