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The 40% Keyboard

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Re: The 40% Keyboard

#321

Post by magduf »

mdpye wrote: post #151
dangus wrote: post #7

Call me cynical, but I think a lot of the small style keyboards I see around the office are more of a fashion trend than anything. I remember when the insistence was on number pads, and how dare they be removed from our laptops and desktop keyboards. Fast forward a few years and I was made fun of at a programming job for preferring a full keyboard with a number pads. I guess programmers are too cool to enter in dolla…

As someone who uses a 4x12 key grid keyboard, I disagree with the assertion that there is no ergonomic benefit. The benefits are twofold, in my experience: 1. On the subject of a reduced number of keys Every key is within 1 unit distance (ok, root(2) units for diagonals) of the home row. I no longer have any cause to remove my fingers from the homed position while I type. Ever. Using (the usually criminally underused…

>... I disagree with the assertion that there is no ergonomic benefit. >... I no longer have any cause to remove my fingers from the homed position while I type. Ever.

Any time a QWERTY user says anything about "ergonomics" and "the home row", I know they don't know what they're talking about. The home row is utterly useless on QWERTY because you rarely use any of those keys; I never keep my fingers on the home row with that keyboard layout, because it's just a waste of motion, and results in more finger strain (try typing "minimum" with your fingers on the home row). I end up just hovering my hands over the keyboard. With a Dvorak layout, however, the home row is actually useful, and it's actually useful to keep your fingers there.

Any talk about "ergonomics" with QWERTY keyboards is a total waste of time IMO. If you're worried about ergonomics, you wouldn't be using QWERTY, a keyboard layout that was specifically designed to be as un-ergonomic as possible.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#322

Post by magduf »

aeyes wrote: post #188
xouse wrote: post #64

I know a lot of people who think they can touch type the number row, but I've yet to meet anyone who can actually do it at anything resembling their normal typing speed and without errors. If people could there would be no reason for the numberpad to exist. I'm a very fast typist and I've always struggled with touch typing the number row. Thirty minutes into using a split 40% keyboard and I was using the number row a…

I also haven't met anyone that touch-types 100% to the book. Everybody does some movements which aren't considered correct. The problem is that at some point you reach a level which you consider sufficient and you stop improving. Unlearning bad habits is a huge effort. I can touch-type the number row at full speed as I was drilled doing it. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't be able to either because you rarely need it…

>I also haven't met anyone that touch-types 100% to the book. Everybody does some movements which aren't considered correct. The problem is that at some point you reach a level which you consider sufficient

That's because touch-typing on QWERTY by using the home row is stupid and counterproductive. The home keys are some of the least-used keys, and the whole layout was designed to be as un-ergonomic as possible.

If you want to touch type "correctly", you need to switch to a better keyboard layout like Dvorak or Workman.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#323

Post by Clubber »

magduf wrote: post #320
Clubber wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I remember when the insistence was on number pads, and how dare they be removed from our laptops and desktop keyboards. I remember when laptops didn't typically have number pads. I rue the day when almost everyone started putting them on laptops larger than 14". I feel "off center" with them on a laptop. With a desktop keyboard, I just shift the keyboard to the right a bit so the traditional keys are centered and th…

>16:9 ratio is another bugger for me. Between 16:9 and number pads on laptops, I'm an odd man out. It's tough when my preferences aren't mainstream. No number pads on laptops IS the mainstream. Almost no laptops have number pads; the only ones that do are huge ones, which are really "mobile workstations". Those aren't "mainstream" in any way at all. 13-14" laptops are mainstream these days, and none of those have num…

I prefer 15" or bigger laptops with no number keyboard and something taller than a 16:9 ratio. My tastes are not mainstream.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#324

Post by boring_twenties »

GrayShade wrote: post #301
boring_twenties wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this still a thing in 2019. Just remap Caps Lock to Ctrl, problem solved. If using Linux, simply add `ctrl:nocaps` to the XKBOPTIONS= line in /etc/default/keyboard, e.g.: XKBOPTIONS='other:options,ctrl:nocaps'

I did that, but never used it. I still find pressing Ctrl to be more comfortable because it requires less movement.

How does it require less movement? It's directly adjacent to the A key -- only the pinky needs to move, and only one key over.

To hit the key in the lower-left corner you basically have to twist your whole hand at the wrist -- not only is that more movement, it probably raises the risk of RSI to the wrist.

What am I missing?

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#325

Post by dlevine »

wyclif wrote: post #308
bitxbit wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why 65% keyboards are becoming popular. You get the compactness of a 60% with the functionality of a TKL. HHKB format is also nice if you can get used to it.

Any examples of a 65% keyboard? I've never heard this terminology thrown around till now.

Yeah. The Whitefox or Drop's Alt Keyboard or the Tada68 or the Magicforce 68.

You can find most of them on Amazon.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#326

Post by magduf »

Clubber wrote: post #323
magduf wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>16:9 ratio is another bugger for me. Between 16:9 and number pads on laptops, I'm an odd man out. It's tough when my preferences aren't mainstream. No number pads on laptops IS the mainstream. Almost no laptops have number pads; the only ones that do are huge ones, which are really "mobile workstations". Those aren't "mainstream" in any way at all. 13-14" laptops are mainstream these days, and none of those have num…

I prefer 15" or bigger laptops with no number keyboard and something taller than a 16:9 ratio. My tastes are not mainstream.

Exactly. But then you're claiming that numberic keypads are "mainstream" on laptops. They're not. Only really exceptional laptops have them. The vast, vast majority do not, and I'm pretty sure that includes everything from Apple.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#327

Post by Clubber »

magduf wrote: post #326
Clubber wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer 15" or bigger laptops with no number keyboard and something taller than a 16:9 ratio. My tastes are not mainstream.

Exactly. But then you're claiming that numberic keypads are "mainstream" on laptops. They're not. Only really exceptional laptops have them. The vast, vast majority do not, and I'm pretty sure that includes everything from Apple.

Reread what I wrote.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#328

Post by petepete »

wyclif wrote: post #306
petepete wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Vimmer, the HHKB is very close to perfection. I can reach every key without having to move my hands too far, the Fn key fall right under my right little finger and Control being in the correct place is a huge win. The fact that it has Topre switches is the icing on the cake, I wouldn't use any other keyboard on a prolonged basis.

What is it about the Topre switches that you prefer?

I like the smooth action and 'thunk'. It's a pleasure to type on after many years' use.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#329

Post by Lio »

acqq wrote: post #281
Lio wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting take on it. Thanks for sharing. I mostly live in a terminal all day and most of that time is in Vim. So I have the whole keyboard to use as shortcuts for movement but I do have to use two hands. Like you I'm more geared up for navigating code. For me small, light movements committed to muscle memory have been the key to me getting round RSI a couple of years ago. I also use the Colemak layout so…

> I do have to use two hands If I’d have to use such programs I’d try the programmable numpads also mentioned here. Even in the middle of nineteen eighties I was able (to my luck) to use a programmable keyboard (independent of the computer and the OS).

I’m still not convinced that I’d give up a narrow central, symmetrical keyboard layout for a few extra keys I have to take my hands away from the home row to use.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#330

Post by sundvor »

mcguire wrote: post #257
roel_v wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the best mouses are tailored for one hand, like the MX Master. I used to switch mouses when I used generic mice, but I'm never going back to those.

The best trackballs are right-hand only, too. https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/wireless-trackball-m5...

Mine's this one, and works perfectly with either hand: https://www.kensington.com/en-au/p/products/control/trackbal...
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