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The 40% Keyboard

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Re: The 40% Keyboard

#151

Post by mdpye »

dangus wrote: post #7

Call me cynical, but I think a lot of the small style keyboards I see around the office are more of a fashion trend than anything. I remember when the insistence was on number pads, and how dare they be removed from our laptops and desktop keyboards. Fast forward a few years and I was made fun of at a programming job for preferring a full keyboard with a number pads. I guess programmers are too cool to enter in dolla…

As someone who uses a 4x12 key grid keyboard, I disagree with the assertion that there is no ergonomic benefit.

The benefits are twofold, in my experience:

1. On the subject of a reduced number of keys

Every key is within 1 unit distance (ok, root(2) units for diagonals) of the home row. I no longer have any cause to remove my fingers from the homed position while I type. Ever.

Using (the usually criminally underused) thumbs to switch layers is great. Depress one thumb, and the numbers are now on the home row - no stretching or moving. The symbols which are usually shifted numbers are now on the top row with no need for shift. Depress the other thumb, and the cursors appear in the usual vim locations, with PgUp/Down and Home/End on the row above and special single-key Ctrl-Left/Right on the row below for by-word movement.

2. On the subject of grid layouts

I personally find the grid layout to be extremely ergonomic. There is no ergonomic intent in the staggered layout, and standard touch typing form requires a lot of bending fingers underneath or around each other.

Using a grid layout matches the mechanics of my fingers much more closely.

There are also a few keys near the middle of the board (B, Y) where it's not even clear in a staggered layout which finger is the natural one to use.

I started typing at the age of 6, hunting and pecking. That was 30 years ago.

Over the years I developed a relatively quick form of 4 finger per-hand typing, but with no proper homing - I could perform fairly long runs of typing uninterrupted based on knowing the keyboard inside out, but my hands would move all over, and I would have to look down frequently, especially after any pause, to find the first key I was going to use next (I could then proceed for a few words working entirely relatively from there).

I made several attempts to learn proper touch typing over the years, but it never went anywhere.

About 2 years ago, I got a Planck clone because it seemed like a fun idea. Within two weeks, and without any drills of training, I was typing entirely without looking at the keyboard.

It's obvious and natural which key maps to which finger.

In summary, the combination of no movement of the hands, and the grid layout (which actually is more ergonomic than staggered - no finger curling!) made typing significantly more intuitive. Especially as a programmer, for whom the symbols scattered around the right hand side, all intended to be operated with my weakest finger (I'm left handed) as an essential part of text input.

I'm still not a particularly fast typist, I never have been. But I find my built in laptop keyboards frustrating now and have no intention of going back. Small and stationary is beautiful, for me!

Just my 2c, as someone who actually uses one.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#152

Post by pdpi »

BigJ1211 wrote: post #134
pdpi wrote: post #114

It really annoys me when people try to claim scientific evidence (Fitts’s law in this case) for their unscientific choices. There is no frequency-of-use analysis, nothing about the cognitive cost of remembering a very very unique set of key bindings (the guy on my team with a 40% keyboard still struggles with some common keystrokes after several months), just “fitts’s law and we move less”.

It's hard to measure I suppose, I personally started using a Redox Wireless (and now own several split, non-split mechanical keyboards of all variaties). I went from being unable to comfortably type a 1/4 of a page to being able to type an entire page at a time. (I'm a developer, so this is really important to me. I was starting to have RSI/CTS complaints at the start of the year) Here's a study I could find with a q…

I'm not in any way, shape or form suggesting that you _don't_ benefit from whatever keyboard you're using. I'm just saying that, if it's anecdotal ("works well for me"), say so — don't hide it behind a veneer of faux science.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#153

Post by vijucat »

I have a Diverge 3 and I love the split aspect of it (easier on the wrists / nerves), and love the programmability (I have the keys that I use most near the home row), and I appreciate the wrist rest, but I miss the function keys' row. It has 71 keys.

I think 40% keyboards work well for gamers, but are impractical for developers, who need to access all the symbol keys ( (, {, [, etc;), and often need access to the function keys, too. Layering, having to press Fn and another key to achieve what could be a single keypress on a 101-key keyboard, just adds work. The input mechanism must be seamless so that one may focus on the actual work. The keyboard should just disappear. The much-touted keyboard.io has the same limitation.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#154

Post by jacobolus »

clarry wrote: post #141
jacobolus wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The further keys on a sculpted Kinesis keyboard are angled the wrong way for comfortable typing (this is an unfortunate artifact of their curved PCB technology combined with lack of first-principles analysis by the designers). You want the switch axis to remain perpendicular to the hand, because flexing the proximal joint of the finger is the way people press keys, and using the whole hand to stab at further keys the…

> But it also works a bit better in practice to put more functions on shifted layers I've never found that to be the case. For me, layers (and modifiers in general) have always been slower and more error prone. Also, I find the number row on the kinesis quite comfortable. I have yet to find a comparable keyboard in that regard.

The Maltron is better than the Kinesis. Still not quite right though.

This (the “DataStealth”) is a better designed-based-on-anatomy keyboard: http://i.imgur.com/USaQaIG.jpg

Unfortunately never produced commercially.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#155

Post by mdpye »

vijucat wrote: post #153

I have a Diverge 3 and I love the split aspect of it (easier on the wrists / nerves), and love the programmability (I have the keys that I use most near the home row), and I appreciate the wrist rest, but I miss the function keys' row. It has 71 keys. I think 40% keyboards work well for gamers, but are impractical for developers, who need to access all the symbol keys ( (, {, [, etc;), and often need access to the fu…

I can't reach `]` without moving my hands from the home row. Nor can I reliably find it using my weakest finger without looking down. Then after I've used it, I must re-home my hands before continuing. Don't even get me started on = and +...

But on my Planck, I press both of my thumbs down in their resting positions and the home row suddenly becomes

[{( )}]

(with the round parens under my index fingers).

Can't get much more seamless than.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#156

Post by callum-oakley »

vijucat wrote: post #153

I have a Diverge 3 and I love the split aspect of it (easier on the wrists / nerves), and love the programmability (I have the keys that I use most near the home row), and I appreciate the wrist rest, but I miss the function keys' row. It has 71 keys. I think 40% keyboards work well for gamers, but are impractical for developers, who need to access all the symbol keys ( (, {, [, etc;), and often need access to the fu…

As a full time 40% keyboard user, I take issue with the sentiment that the form factor is impractical for development. Holding a layer modifier to access symbols on the home row is less work than moving to the far reaches of a 101 key board, and often having to hit shift as well anyway!

I wrote an article on the subject recently if you're up for having your assumptions challenged: https://callumoakley.net/posts/48-keys-are-plenty

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#157

Post by eptcyka »

sundvor wrote: post #119
binarycrusader wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your mouse is closer so you don't have to move your hand as far. Not if you use a mouse left-handed ;) But more seriously, I grew up being trained to touch type in the classical way complete with ten-key exercises. I strongly prefer having a full numpad and I actually prefer the extra distance to the right for mouse usage. I've found over the years that the more I move my hands, the less likely I am to have discomfor…

I'd recommend everyone to get used to operating the mouse with either hand. It certainly helps load balancing, and probably has other benefits too. Consider it a DR plan if you suffer a dominant hand fracture, for example.

The best disaster-recovery plan for when you can't use your dominant hand to operate a mouse is to be able to use the computer without use a mouse.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#158

Post by slightwinder »

lioeters wrote: post #70
briantakita wrote: post #39

One can make a programmable matrix layout keyboard with Two Koolertron keyboards. While it may be a bit bigger than the 40% keyboard, it's small, programmable, & has 96 keys or 94 keys in 3 toggleable layouts. Gamers tend to use it has an extended numpad but I use it as my general keyboard with bespoke tilting upwards toward the middle. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076LRJ528?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_shar...

I've never seen those, nice! I like the cute and minimalistic design with no labels. It's advertised as a "Single-Handed Programmable Mechanical Keyboard", a unit having 48 keys (in 4 groups of 4x3) - I see, so one for each hand. It being programmable sounds great, one could position characters and modifiers any which way to please. Just curious, I suppose you've placed labels with your own mapping - or do you use th…

They also have a "Koolertron Programmable Split Mechanical Keyboard" which is basically two units working as a complete keyboard.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#159

Post by GrayShade »

I don't have RSI, but it seems to me that rotating your wrists to press Ctrl with your pinky is one of the larger parts of the problem.

I prefer to press Ctrl with the side of my palm, but that doesn't work on some Lenovo and Apple laptops which Fn is at the edge of the keyboard.

Re: The 40% Keyboard

#160

Post by Fnoord »

dangus wrote: post #7

Call me cynical, but I think a lot of the small style keyboards I see around the office are more of a fashion trend than anything. I remember when the insistence was on number pads, and how dare they be removed from our laptops and desktop keyboards. Fast forward a few years and I was made fun of at a programming job for preferring a full keyboard with a number pads. I guess programmers are too cool to enter in dolla…

> Call me cynical, but I think a lot of the small style keyboards I see around the office are more of a fashion trend than anything.

I believe it part of the human ability to experiment, to optimize, to research, trying out something different, or perhaps more negatively to be discontent with current options you know and going for the mentioned solution.

It is a matter of optimization, and using the freedom you have to experiment. What you want to optimize for, depends on your concerns. Weight, size, ergonomics, aesthetics, modability.

For example, I like having Bluetooth on a device like a keyboard, but I also like the ability to turn it off, and barely use it. Because USB is usually good enough. I'm cool if this adds a little bit in size/weight. You might not be cool with that. Hence, we get choice.

> This makes no sense because the colored keys imply you enjoy looking at your keys and their unlabeled nature implies that you don’t need to look at your keys while you type. i.e. a fashion trend.

The purpose of showing the values is (initial) learning curve, and reminder.

Unlabeled has a different purpose: if you (sometimes) assign a different key layout, assign different keybinds which depends on factors (such as the language you type in, OS or program you use, or location you're at) then it is useful. Also, that part of the keyboard is not going to have worn use, and the resale value might be higher. On top of that, the designer does not have to cater to all kind of weird/different niche layouts.

I do agree I am not a big fan of colored LED keyboard, but it might look pretty if you assign it certain colours and have your computer idle.

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