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In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

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Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#101

Post by hmottestad »

uuilly wrote: post #97
smokey_the_bear wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know your point was specifically about young men, but this is one of the things that keeps women from doing startups. I'm young, healthy, female, and doing a startup, but one of my major concerns was finding a health care plan that would eventually cover maternity. Prior to the health reform law, if I'd developed any kind of condition I wouldn't have been able to switch plans, and even if I did, they often don't co…

So you're comfortable pushing those costs onto healthy young men?

In Norway healthy young men make the most money, so they pay the most taxes. Essentially it's a lot harder to get super rich in Norway, but then again it's a hell of a lot harder to become super poor. We find that if everyone is moderately rich things work fairly well.

Edit: And there would be very few healthy young men if there were no healthy young women giving birth. Just check out Japan.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#102

Post by sp332 »

uuilly wrote: post #97
smokey_the_bear wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know your point was specifically about young men, but this is one of the things that keeps women from doing startups. I'm young, healthy, female, and doing a startup, but one of my major concerns was finding a health care plan that would eventually cover maternity. Prior to the health reform law, if I'd developed any kind of condition I wouldn't have been able to switch plans, and even if I did, they often don't co…

So you're comfortable pushing those costs onto healthy young men?

I don't know anyone who would mind pitching in a bit for a pregnant woman with complications.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#103

Post by laut »

beoba wrote: post #3

I thought this line was particularly telling: "Although America remains near the top of the world in terms of entrepreneurial aspirations - that is, the percentage of people who want to start new things-in terms of actual start-up activity, our country has fallen behind not just Norway but also Canada, Denmark and Switzerland." Yet any mention of figuring out what they're doing right (and what we're doing wrong) is S…

Please stop pointing to successful market economies and calling them socialist.

In some ways Switzerland is a libertarian tax haven and really makes the US look socialist.

Switzerland, Canada and Denmark are more economically free than the US according to this: http://www.heritage.org/index/

Just because there are some very rich people in the US, it doesn't mean the average person would be better off in a socialist country such North Korea or Cuba.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#104

Post by jarek »

stevenbedrick wrote: post #92
rick888 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No, everybody is not "in it for the money". You said it yourself, actually: most people are in it for the things that money allows them to do. That is a very important difference, and it's one that a lot of people forget about." You need money though. So directly or indirectly, money is always a factor. "since you can have the freedom from healthcare-related financial catastrophe, a decent vacation policy, education…

> Norwegians now have a sense of entitlement. You say that like it's a bad thing. One could say that us Americans have a "sense of entitlement" about things like clean drinking water, functioning emergency services, and a publicly-funded education system; alternatively, one could just as easily say that we have a set of baseline expectations about the sorts of things that a modern society is supposed to provide to it…

> I'm basically saying, "if my income is X millions of dollars, why do I care if the government takes half of that and I only have .5X?"

As I understand it, he fundamentally believes he should be the one making the decision what to do with X dollars he earns -- including potentially distributing it as charity -- rather than a government. I don't agree with this position, but it's fairly consistent.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#105

Post by beoba »

rick888 wrote: post #56
_delirium wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But entrepreneurs are mostly healthy young men Could this be at least in part a self-fulfilling prophecy? Due to the way healthcare is set up in the U.S., the only people who really can consider quitting their jobs, and losing their group-health plan as a result, are: 1) people who are already rich (or have rich family); and 2) healthy young men. edit: Actually, I suppose people over 65 also can, due to the U.S.'s…

"Could this be at least in part a self-fulfilling prophecy? Due to the way healthcare is set up in the U.S., the only people who really can consider quitting their jobs, and losing their group-health plan as a result, are: 1) people who are already rich (or have rich family); and 2) healthy young men" Health care is a small part of it. The other part is that once you have a stable income and a family (wife+kids), mos…

Or go gay. You know. Either/or.

Serious point though: It's relatively easy to take risks on your income when you're half of a DINK family.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#106

Post by uuilly »

sp332 wrote: post #102
uuilly wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're comfortable pushing those costs onto healthy young men?

I don't know anyone who would mind pitching in a bit for a pregnant woman with complications.

I can't imagine that many ramen profitable founders would prioritize the finances of pregnant women over the finances of their company.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#107

Post by laut »

anghyflawn wrote: post #70
tsotha wrote: post #58

Norway would have a lot more trouble saying "ja" to socialism if it didn't have so much oil. That's what makes the whole thing seem like such a good deal - you're getting more than you're paying in.

Aw come on, Norway has oil and it is small, but was social-democratic long before any oil, and both Denmark and Sweden have built successful welfare safety nets without relying so much on a natural-resources windfall.

Sweden is a big industrial nation. The relatively free market system allowed them to flourish.

In all of the Scandinavian countries the welfare state really didn't start until around the 1960s-1970s.

The government programs have only been possible because of the successful private economy to pay for it, just like in the US.

Although Denmark doesn't have the massive oil wealth that Norway does, there is still some and enough that Denmark is a net oil exporter. And the Danish state gets billions of kroner from oil each year.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#108

Post by hugh3 »

michaelchisari wrote: post #91
laut wrote: post #67

The title is an oxymoron. With socialism, you don't have private ownership of the means of production. Thus you cannot have start-ups with socialism.

The base definition of socialism is "worker ownership of the means of production and distribution". Some interpret this to be state or public ownership, but others see worker co-operatives, collectives and federations to be socialist formations which can operate within a market. Syndicalists, market socialists, etc. would fall under this definition.

The base definition of socialism is "worker ownership of the means of production and distribution".

So, any system where people who work are free to buy shares in companies then?

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#109

Post by danbmil99 »

beoba wrote: post #105
rick888 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Could this be at least in part a self-fulfilling prophecy? Due to the way healthcare is set up in the U.S., the only people who really can consider quitting their jobs, and losing their group-health plan as a result, are: 1) people who are already rich (or have rich family); and 2) healthy young men" Health care is a small part of it. The other part is that once you have a stable income and a family (wife+kids), mos…

Or go gay. You know. Either/or. Serious point though: It's relatively easy to take risks on your income when you're half of a DINK family.

Being gay no longer automatically avoids the married with kids & big expensive house problem, at least not in Silicon Valley.

Re: In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism

#110

Post by beoba »

danbmil99 wrote: post #109
beoba wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or go gay. You know. Either/or. Serious point though: It's relatively easy to take risks on your income when you're half of a DINK family.

Being gay no longer automatically avoids the married with kids & big expensive house problem, at least not in Silicon Valley.

I'd have figured closet marriages would be less common now, especially in the bay area, excepting senators/televangelists I suppose. Or are you referring to adoption? Ugh kids.
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