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Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

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Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#331

Post by TheGrassyKnoll »

jhall1468 wrote: post #265
excursionist wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The non-technical among us, the 80-90% if you will, are not going to use a desktop Linux distribution the way they are currently setup. A home user is not going to use Google to fix a problem. They're not going to call their technically-inclined family member. They're not going to edit text files nor understand the minutiae of their hardware (and it WILL happen, eventually, 100% guaranteed). They are either going t…

> So what are they going to do when they encounter a problem on windows? Pretty sure MS hasn't yet figured out how to directly install a Window manual into their userss brains, and the thousands of unanswered windows troubleshooting questions online can attest to that. They call an 800 number to get help or send it back. > your own technical ignorance and laziness? That, right there, was exactly what the person was r…

> "piss off and learn"

  Sounds like a great name for a new distro...

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#332

Post by pksdjfikkkkdsff »

gowld wrote: post #113
pksdjfikkkkdsff wrote: post #32

I can't really follow the article. Too much paranoia, or negativity, I guess. All I care about is having a usable Linux shell and Linux tool on my Windows machine. What else can you expect from Microsoft? Yeah, they are doing it so that people don't switch over to Linux completely. What more can you expect? Is it even Microsoft's job to establish a standard for 3d Graphics and what not? Or is the ball in the park of…

Why wouldn't an Operating System developer be responsible for providing an interface between hardware developers and applicaton developers?

OpenGL seems to have coexisted with DirectX for a while. I don't know enough about OS development to be able to judge if Microsoft prevented OpenGL from achieving the same performance as DirectX.

Given the abysmal security history of Windows, my guess would be that it was possible to get close to the metal as a driver developer, at least in the old days.

Also MS couldn't be expected to take care of an interface that works on iOS and Linux. They are responsible for Windows.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#333

Post by jcranberry »

Someone1234 wrote: post #93
excursionist wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has historically been the single greatest enemy of Linux and Open Source in general. The only reason they now changed face and hopped on the Linux train is that they realized they lost or cannot possibly win the battle when it comes to servers, embedded devices, a large section of developers, mobile, etc. > I can tell you unequivocally the thing holding back the average enterprise from moving their entire b…

People don't use Linux Desktop because it is bad. Constantly looking for others to blame (Microsoft, DRM, Google, Valve, Apple, etc) doesn't change that fact. The fact that Google has been able to take the Linux kernel twice and produce a better and more popular desktop experience (with Android and then Chromebook) should be a good indication of that. Linux Desktop is exclusively designed for Linux developers, it is…

With Linux + Gnome 3, you don't really ever have to go change text files in /etc. If you're only using native software/browsing/etc, the experience is fine for a non-technical person.

People don't use Linux just because it only has downsides for the average person. Not being able to play games, use MS office, other domain specific software, get used to a new UI...plus the only cultural associations with it is that it's highly technical. So there's no incentives for people to switch.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#334

Post by pbhjpbhj »

dredmorbius wrote: post #314
smacktoward wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They won't release products like Office for Linux Because the market for desktop Linux applications is too small to be worth considering. The whole reason they "love Linux" now is because Linux on the server gained too much market share for them to realistically oppose. They had to find a way to make money in that market that didn't involve somehow boiling an ocean of Linux machines. So they did. Windows is still o…

Microsoft have an established track record of offering, then withdrawing, MS Office for alternate platforms (or refusing to offer it at all). I seem to recall that there was an Office version for Sun Microsystem's Solaris, which is 99.99...% of the way to a Linux variant. That was killed. (This may have been MSIE or an Exchange-compatible email client, I'm researching this still.) OSX is better supported, though for…

>an [MS] Office version for Sun Microsystem's Solaris //

Are you sure you're not thinking of StarOffice, which became OpenOffice.org which begat LibreOffice. That was Sun's answer to MS Office, supposedly started by realising it was cheaper to buy a company that made an office suite and develop it in-house than it was to pay MS for their suite.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#335

Post by pbhjpbhj »

smacktoward wrote: post #206
juliangoldsmith wrote: post #17

Microsoft loves Linux because it makes them money. I'm not sure why anyone would expect differently. They won't release products like Office for Linux (though a web interface is possible), and they won't move away from Windows-only APIs. Neither of those actions would have any tangible benefit for the primary users of those produts (Windows users and Windows developers, respectively). Active Directory is so deeply in…

> They won't release products like Office for Linux Because the market for desktop Linux applications is too small to be worth considering. The whole reason they "love Linux" now is because Linux on the server gained too much market share for them to realistically oppose. They had to find a way to make money in that market that didn't involve somehow boiling an ocean of Linux machines. So they did. Windows is still o…

>Because the market for desktop Linux applications is too small to be worth considering. //

If MS Office were available for Linux the market for Linux applications would grow, massively IMO (assuming it worked properly). Which is of course a reason MS wouldn't do that, because why move MS Office users to Linux when you're currently selling $Billions of OS to people who only want to use MS Office.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#336

Post by Spooky23 »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #184
Spooky23 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As corporate datacenters migrate to the cloud, the distinction between internal and external will fade. Additionally, with cloud email/office becoming the standard, there’s powerful levers to incentive cloud adoption and shifting of compliance standards.

> As corporate datacenters migrate to the cloud I don't think this trend is as large as SV web devs think it is, nor do I think the trend will continue indefinitely in that direction. My current corporate masters hate the cloud because they want to be in control of their own data and services. They don't want to twiddle their thumbs when somethings wrong while waiting for BigCorp to get around to fixing it. They real…

I think that really big and really small companies will go the way you describe.

Most places want to control capex and limit capacity wastage. Nobody wants to invest in datacenter facilities. Even the government, which has access to super cheap capital, is embracing cloud.

The shift is real. In my area, a major infrastructure OEM like HPE has like 2 CEs that cover the region. There was probably 14-16 20 years ago.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#337

Post by philwelch »

dredmorbius wrote: post #314
smacktoward wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They won't release products like Office for Linux Because the market for desktop Linux applications is too small to be worth considering. The whole reason they "love Linux" now is because Linux on the server gained too much market share for them to realistically oppose. They had to find a way to make money in that market that didn't involve somehow boiling an ocean of Linux machines. So they did. Windows is still o…

Microsoft have an established track record of offering, then withdrawing, MS Office for alternate platforms (or refusing to offer it at all). I seem to recall that there was an Office version for Sun Microsystem's Solaris, which is 99.99...% of the way to a Linux variant. That was killed. (This may have been MSIE or an Exchange-compatible email client, I'm researching this still.) OSX is better supported, though for…

You’re citing things that happened almost 20 years ago if you’re talking about Solaris and BeOS.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#338

Post by throwaway8291 »

I'm in the camp of moving my stuff out of GitHub (thankfully so many nice options, like GitLab, gitea/gogs, and of course sourcehut) because the only reason I do not hate Microsoft is that I was able to avoid any of their tech successfully for the past 15 years.

In it for the money, and gone if there's nothing more to capture. Simple story. That's exactly how something like a community does not work.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#339

Post by philwelch »

aseipp wrote: post #280
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bug-for-bug? Nah. Just come up with something even remotely as productivity-enhancing as Excel is and you might have a shot. Fact is, people who think this already exists underestimate that powerhouse of productivity. It is possibly the most used programming environment on earth.

Here's my hot take, as a Linux distro developer with an Office356 sub: Excel is absolutely ridiculous and anyone who thinks anything in the FOSS world can compare or stand up to what Excel does is completely deluding themselves, and this is a major reason why Excel will never be replaced, or even touched, by FOSS solutions. PowerQuery is absolutely game changing (and no I will not accept "but you can cobble together…

TBF, depending on data size I’ve had much better results with awk and friends than with Excel.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#340

Post by fhery »

Nullabillity wrote: post #243
fhery wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, you must've been trying hard to cherry pick those. I'm actually curious about this one: >SSMS is an unusable hog. There is just no nice way to put it. I've been using both postgre and sql server for like 1.5 year and tooling difference between pgAdmin and SSMS is insane SSMS is mature, reliable and makes my life easier meanwhile pgAdmin is just viable, but nothing more. Generally SQL Server seems to be years ahe…

> Wow, you must've been trying hard to cherry pick those. Not really. Just try keeping a .NET/MSSQL environment running for a few days, and the stories will build up quickly. > SSMS is mature, reliable and makes my life easier meanwhile pgAdmin is just viable, but nothing more. But psql is good enough that I pretty much never have to touch pgAdmin. And for ad-hoc editing (the only case where graphical editors have an…

What about copying data between databases? I couldnt get it right in pg, meanwhile works fine in SQL Server

Also pgAdmin has no(?) Intellisense.

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