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Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

pedrocr.pt

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Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#241

Post by catalogia »

tw04 wrote: post #28

I'm not sure I follow what the author is getting at other than "We should hate MS and do our best to not work with them on anything!". First it was "MS breaks compatibility on purpose, screw those guys!". Now it's "sure, they're playing nice but they don't have a product in every market segment we want so they must have some nefarious master plan we haven't figure out yet!" Everytime I hear someone say "just look, th…

> "First it was "MS breaks compatibility on purpose, screw those guys!". Now it's "sure, they're playing nice but they don't have a product in every market segment we want so they must have some nefarious master plan we haven't figure out yet!"

You're framing this as a change in narrative from Microsoft critics, but I don't think that's a fair way to frame it. 20+ or so years ago people were accusing Microsoft of Extinguishing and now people are accusing Microsoft of Embracing, but if you actually listen to what people were saying they've been talking about Embrace, Extend, Extinguish the whole time. I think the narrative from Microsoft critics has remained consistent.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#242

Post by qwerty456127 »

juliangoldsmith wrote: post #17

Microsoft loves Linux because it makes them money. I'm not sure why anyone would expect differently. They won't release products like Office for Linux (though a web interface is possible), and they won't move away from Windows-only APIs. Neither of those actions would have any tangible benefit for the primary users of those produts (Windows users and Windows developers, respectively). Active Directory is so deeply in…

AFAK SAMBA 4 can serve as an AD controller and you probably can run it on Azure. Or even on a Windows server if you want (I used SAMBA client on Windows once).

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#243

Post by Nullabillity »

fhery wrote: post #196
Nullabillity wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because Microsoft makes some of the best tools for developers. NuGet constantly fails silently when trying to restore packages. Visual Studio is an editor built primarily around a folder tree, with no competent way to navigate that tree without constantly losing your place. It's also the only IDE that I have used where I just had to give up trying to find the application logs. > Because sql server is a fantastic pr…

Wow, you must've been trying hard to cherry pick those. I'm actually curious about this one: >SSMS is an unusable hog. There is just no nice way to put it. I've been using both postgre and sql server for like 1.5 year and tooling difference between pgAdmin and SSMS is insane SSMS is mature, reliable and makes my life easier meanwhile pgAdmin is just viable, but nothing more. Generally SQL Server seems to be years ahe…

> Wow, you must've been trying hard to cherry pick those.

Not really. Just try keeping a .NET/MSSQL environment running for a few days, and the stories will build up quickly.

> SSMS is mature, reliable and makes my life easier meanwhile pgAdmin is just viable, but nothing more.

But psql is good enough that I pretty much never have to touch pgAdmin. And for ad-hoc editing (the only case where graphical editors have any real advantage), surprise, SSMS can't edit the results of custom queries. pgAdmin doesn't care, as long as the query contains the primary key.

And there is also a lot of polish that SSMS just doesn't have. Like how it forgets the order of your tabs as soon as they overflow. Or how you can't just do an ad-hoc query and see the result, you need to open a new query "document".

>> NuGet constantly fails silently when trying to restore packages.

> what?

That was my reaction too. Sometimes it decides that it won't build at all because it complains about unresolved references. Sometimes it builds but assets will be missing. And of course it's an opaque black box in the usual MS fashion, so there is no way to force it to retry, or to find out why it's not cooperating.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#244

Post by [deleted] »

darkcha0s wrote: post #74
vrthrowaway wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't _like_ it, that's the author's whole point. They would obviously prefer that everyone pay for windows server, but they've lost that battle. "Like" is pure marketing. >You only have to look at MS presence at Kubecon where you'll often see MS staff with Macs or Ubuntu laptops on their stand. marketing in a market. I think we (or you and the author, I'm just re-iterating his points) are talking past each othe…

Just a question-- what would be a path you deem the best? Should Microsoft just work in its silo, while Linux develops in its silo? Should Microsoft not embrace linux? I feel like the 2 strategies mentioned by the author simply let you point to the other one when the first one doesn't grip. I'm always at a loss when these HN posts come about, because I feel like 99% of the hate/sentiment stems from the time Microsoft…

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#245

Post by dbdjfjrjvebd »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #178
threatofrain wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average student is using Google Docs and Drive but the office workers I hear are driven by corporate culture, and traditional places of work like accounting offices haven’t culturally embraced these kinds of solutions.

Things is like publisher, illustrator, etc. can replace word. Open office is respectable. But all the google docs champions need to wake up. Google docs is absolutely inferior in its power, formatting options, display performance, ability to write mathematical equations and diagrams directly into the document, etc. Every time I had to produce a non-trivial report in google docs I grind my teeth and end up rendering t…

For diagrams try draw.io

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#246

Post by noinsight »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #163
Spooky23 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AD will be gone in the 2030 timeframe. Kerberos can’t survive in untrusted networks, and products like Azure AD and Okta are far more profitable, especially since the license that pays for AD (ie windows, even for Linux clients), is required anyway!

AD is mostly used internally on corporate networks. Why would untrusted networks be relevant?

Because the distinction of internal and external networks is eroding. Read about zero trust networking.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#247

Post by vetinari »

WorldMaker wrote: post #238
vetinari wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NMBD and WINS name resolutions are dead on Windows too; normal DNS is used since the AD was introduced. For service discovery, WSD is supposed to be used now, Windows 10 and Windows 2016/19 are slowly killing SMB1. Windows itself doesn't really play nice with mDNS/DNS-SD (Bonjour).

Windows works just fine with mDNS/DNS-SD, it's just that they learned a lot from WINS and SMB1 and are a lot tighter on which multicast IPs they respond to and when. (With security things like "HomeGroups" and similar mediating.) It doesn't always support the .local pseudo-DNS, but that's a relatively more recent standard, and also another place where Windows' back compat and learned mistakes cause it to be very caut…

.local is reserved for mDNS by the same RFC that defines mDNS itself (RFC6762), which is from 2013, so not that recent. If Windows plays games with responder, it is them breaking the standard. Last time I looked, (which is some time ago), Bonjour was available only for modern apps, where they could do discovery for their own counterparts on the network, but not as general, system integrated service. For example, I've never seen that windows smb client could discover SMB shares advertised by Bonjour, that macOS and Linux clients do find. It needs either WSD, or SMB1.

But it is true, that some enterprises abuse .local for their internal network, even for new installations. The answer I got was "it is best practices", but never got an answer where these "best practices" are from. But hey, it is their problem now.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#248

Post by WorldMaker »

tracker1 wrote: post #135
xenorplxx wrote: post #33

Hm. MS started to support React, especially React Native project lately with their react-native-windows and AppCenter, but I honestly have no idea why would they do that instead of going with something like Electron, since they started to invest in Chromium and V8 anyway.

They've done a lot with Electron as well... Github now being a subsidiary of MS. VS Code is really nice, and Teams is decent. I'd be surprised if we don't see new cross platform Office releases based on the Web versions wrapped in Electron in the next couple years.

Office has been heading towards React Native and React Native for Web, according to BUILD talks.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#249

Post by jasoneckert »

I'm not too sure what to think of this article. There are some valid points to me made for sure, but intent today isn't as clear cut as it was 20 years ago.

For example, almost 20 years ago, I stood in front of a group of mostly sales people in a board room at Microsoft Canada to answer emotionally-charged questions about this "Linux threat" that was looming. Just under a year ago, I sat on a couch at Microsoft with some talented Microsoft developers drinking a custom Americano listening to them talk about how Microsoft recognizes their personal open source and ethical values in a way that makes them love their job.

As a Linux developer and geek, it's difficult to hate Microsoft today.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#250

Post by WorldMaker »

xenorplxx wrote: post #33

Hm. MS started to support React, especially React Native project lately with their react-native-windows and AppCenter, but I honestly have no idea why would they do that instead of going with something like Electron, since they started to invest in Chromium and V8 anyway.

My impression is that Microsoft sees it as a "¿Por que no los dos?" situation and is investing in both because it makes developers happy to have a choice.
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