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Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

pedrocr.pt

261–270 of 421 posts

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#261

From what I see in general MS like Linux on the server, not so much the desktop. The reason for that is pretty obvious. They want as many organizations as possible to use their cloud platform, for that to work, they need first class Linux server support. On the desktop, they'd prefer people to be using Windows, but they want to ensure that developers who deploy to Linux have a great experience, thus WSL, VS Code et a…

They don't _like_ it, that's the author's whole point. They would obviously prefer that everyone pay for windows server, but they've lost that battle. "Like" is pure marketing. >You only have to look at MS presence at Kubecon where you'll often see MS staff with Macs or Ubuntu laptops on their stand. marketing in a market. I think we (or you and the author, I'm just re-iterating his points) are talking past each othe…

I'd suggest that no corporate "loves" or "likes" anything :)

They're there to make money, simple as that (whether they should be or not, is a whole other discussion).

What tends to get in the way is internal politics and hubris, where a company gets ossified and scared of change.

There's plenty of examples of this (Nokia, Blackberry, Novell etc etc). A bold company will be willing to change even at the apparent cost of one of their own products.

MS have done a pretty effective job, under Satya Nadella, of realising that clinging to the past isn't effective and that they need to be willing to move with the times.

The argument, that I felt the article made, that this is some EEE strategy is (IMO) misplaced. I think MS has no intention of trying to extinguish Linux (if such a thing was even possible), they're adapting to the new reality.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#262

Even if Microsoft does really love Linux, I'd rather want to know which Linux they love: a generic one such as any popular distro out there, or rather their own version of Linux, which could be a frankenpenguin where some obscure proprietary technolgy, no matter how small, would magically make their software run "better". I am 100% speculating, of course, but if I was in Microsoft pants and wanted to kill Linux becau…

Linux is the kernel and when in a distro is linux/gnu.

So in this case Microsoft loves the kernel not the desktop environments

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#263

Even if Microsoft does really love Linux, I'd rather want to know which Linux they love: a generic one such as any popular distro out there, or rather their own version of Linux, which could be a frankenpenguin where some obscure proprietary technolgy, no matter how small, would magically make their software run "better". I am 100% speculating, of course, but if I was in Microsoft pants and wanted to kill Linux becau…

To be fair, this sounds just like Google's strategy with Android.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#264

From what I see in general MS like Linux on the server, not so much the desktop. The reason for that is pretty obvious. They want as many organizations as possible to use their cloud platform, for that to work, they need first class Linux server support. On the desktop, they'd prefer people to be using Windows, but they want to ensure that developers who deploy to Linux have a great experience, thus WSL, VS Code et a…

According to a friend within Microsoft, what you described is basically how it works. More so than other large corps, Microsoft seems to be a disorganised mess. Some groups fight the good fight, some groups do bad things to get ahead, some groups don't know what they're doing or are pressured by bad management, other groups operate extremely well but are assigned to the wrong tasks.

I'm not sure that's a bad thing, if I'm honest.

Strong top-down direction can work (e.g. Steve Jobs at Apple) but it can also cause ossification (e.g. Blackberry) where a company won't sacrifice an existing product to move forward.

Windows server has obviously lost the app server market, for a majority of companies. MS has adapted to that new reality by supporting Linux servers.

I'd say that is to their credit. Look at other companies who have been slower to adapt to the new cloud world (e.g. Oracle) and you can see the costs to their long term viability.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally I don't think it can be fixed not because the software is beyond saving, but the community surrounding it doesn't actually want it to be an experience for regular non-technical people. Try going to a mailing list and suggesting that editing text files in /etc isn't a practical end-user experience and see what response you get. Thank you. This is the truth, and your attitude on the issue will tell you whi…

> The non-technical among us, the 80-90% if you will, are not going to use a desktop Linux distribution the way they are currently setup. A home user is not going to use Google to fix a problem. They're not going to call their technically-inclined family member. They're not going to edit text files nor understand the minutiae of their hardware (and it WILL happen, eventually, 100% guaranteed). They are either going t…

> So what are they going to do when they encounter a problem on windows? Pretty sure MS hasn't yet figured out how to directly install a Window manual into their userss brains, and the thousands of unanswered windows troubleshooting questions online can attest to that.

They call an 800 number to get help or send it back.

> your own technical ignorance and laziness?

That, right there, was exactly what the person was responding to. This attitude of "piss off and learn" is incredibly prevalent in the Linux community, which is exactly why it is (and will remain, for the foreseeable future) irrelevant on the desktop.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#266
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Percentage of people living on web-apps is > 10%. Linux Desktop is 0.8% according to Statcounter, September 19 Which is the bigger threat?

Why on Earth did you bring LINUX desktop here? Anyways I am done with this Kool-Aid

That was the point of this entire thread. That MS doesn't care about Linux Desktop, so it's no longer a threat. The browser is the new threat, so being buddies with Linux is fine.

There's no secret plan here. Priorities have changed since 2002...

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Office was available for Linux, some organizations could consider deploying Linux workstations with Office since that's what most users/employees need is basically a browser (100%/users) and the Office suite (50-90%/users). Office Online is severely gimped as noted in the article and is solely to counteract adoption of Google Office.

What kind of an assumption is this. Most people need an operating system they are comfortable doing their daily work, not just a browser and a notepad. Jesus christ, not all non-devs work only in office.

You're also making the assumption that Linux would be difficult to use outside of Office to non-devs. I challenge the assertion that a distro like Ubuntu in 2019 is any harder to use than Windows nowadays. Would you make the same assertion about something like Windows XP? Ubuntu has almost 20 years on Windows XP. What have people used their current OS for that is so different from what they did with XP? I think that there's validity in the argument that the availability of a solid suite of key professional software (e.g. Office, email client, Internet browser) would influence the adoption of Linux by organizations. Love it or hate it, nothing compares to MS Office on any platform by far, unfortunately it's also one of the last few of those key professional app that's not available on Linux.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#268

Microsoft loves Linux because it makes them money. I'm not sure why anyone would expect differently. They won't release products like Office for Linux (though a web interface is possible), and they won't move away from Windows-only APIs. Neither of those actions would have any tangible benefit for the primary users of those produts (Windows users and Windows developers, respectively). Active Directory is so deeply in…

> They won't release products like Office for Linux This one I don't really understand why not. Presumably Office for Linux would still bring in revenue. Just not the additional indirect revenue of a Windows license. > (though a web interface is possible), I am not totally familiar with the "Office365" brand and what it includes, but I get the impression some browser based stuff already works on Linux. In work accoun…

Don't forget the expense of porting it in the first place, and then maintaining it after.

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The non-technical among us, the 80-90% if you will, are not going to use a desktop Linux distribution the way they are currently setup. A home user is not going to use Google to fix a problem. They're not going to call their technically-inclined family member. They're not going to edit text files nor understand the minutiae of their hardware (and it WILL happen, eventually, 100% guaranteed). They are either going t…

> So what are they going to do when they encounter a problem on windows? Pretty sure MS hasn't yet figured out how to directly install a Window manual into their userss brains, and the thousands of unanswered windows troubleshooting questions online can attest to that. They call an 800 number to get help or send it back. > your own technical ignorance and laziness? That, right there, was exactly what the person was r…

> They call an 800 number to get help or send it back.

So they either attempt to get a solution from the same kind of service you get by buying a commercial linux desktop (or just the support), or they 'send it back' - which was exactly your complaint about Linux. You're contradicting yourself.

> That, right there, was exactly what the person was responding to.

It was actually a question regarding the need to tell tales about 'crusty basement-dwelling kids now in their 50s'. What was the point of that other than to make yourself feel better?

Re: Microsoft's “Love” of Linux

#270

I am getting the impression the author is fighting yesterday’s war and on top of that has not been following what's going on in windows/.Net development lately. There has been a large-scale effort to open-source and port chunks of Windows and .Net Framework WinForms 'the win95-style UI' https://github.com/dotnet/winforms WPF 'the Vista-style UI' https://github.com/dotnet/wpf WinUI3 'the Modern-style UI' https://githu…

None of the UI frameworks have been ported.
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