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Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

bbc.com

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Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#461

Post by kls »

vintermann wrote: post #428
mcv wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is mostly self-inflicted, though. He chose that exile over facing justice for these charges. And calling systemic judicial prosecution "torture" is most certainly hyperbole. It's the job of the judicial system to prosecute people who break the law, and it's definitely better if they do so in a systemic rather than arbitrary way. So while it's entirely possible that Assange shows symptoms of torture, the question r…

This talking point had been soundly debunked. Sweden kept up the threat of charges and demand for extradition for nearly ten years, but dropped them like a hot potato when the US charges became public (when Sweden's charges would only get in their way). Never mind that Assange was ridiculed for most of those ten years for claiming that US would seek his extradition. His understanding of the world, including the asses…

While I don't disagree, the crowd is fickle and has at best a short attention span. He would have been better served to face the charges while it was all going on and he had the crowds attention. He is in a far worse position now, given that attentions and the world have moved on. The US can pretty much railroad him and no one will bat an eye. Whereas before they risked making a martyr.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#463

Post by jules-jules »

nemo wrote: post #322
k1m wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Melzer: "Mr. Assange was about as free to leave as someone sitting on a rubber boat in a shark pool." In 2016 another group of UN experts found his situation to be "arbitrary detention": > In its official Opinion, the Working Group considered that Mr. Assange had been subjected to different forms of deprivation of liberty: initial detention in Wandsworth Prison in London, followed by house arrest and then confinement…

He fled justice to hide in an embassy. He was fully free to leave, and should have faced justice from the start. Fugitives from justice do not enjoy pleasant conditions - that's not a strike against liberty, but a necessary condition of the rule of law.

Free to leave to where? Solitary confinement in a UK prison for publishing embarrassing information? Yeah, I would respectfully disagree with you there.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#464

Post by manifestsilence »

inetknght wrote: post #249
762236 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is currently held in solitary confinement, with 1 hour outside his cell per day. That is torture.

I don't think so. I spend less than an hour outside each day and I don't find my life to be torturous.

23 hours involuntary solitary confinement is legit confirmed psychological torture. Self-inflicting that is either self-harm or else you are doing meaningful activities indoors and it's not the same thing at all.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#465

Post by monocasa »

Forbo wrote: post #241
Jamwinner wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they never had any strong charges to begin with and the whole plan was to hand over Assange to the US, just Assange said. This is a copy of a dead comment. Not mine.

You can vouch for dead comments if you believe they are contributing to the conversation. Click on the timestamp to see if the option is available, I'd imagine it is karma dependent.

I know my vouching ability was taken away for reasons never really clear to me.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#466

Post by im3w1l »

jcranberry wrote: post #375
shadowgovt wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two answers to that: technical (legal) and moral. Technical (legal): No, clearly not. There's a reason he's hiding from the US justice system in Russia. He didn't follow the legal process for whistleblowing (and he probably should not have). Moral: The major difference between Manning and Snowden's leaks is that Snowden read the documents he forwarded and only collected and forwarded enough to blow the whis…

Snowden took and gave much more than he could possibly have read. In July 2014, The Washington Post reported on a cache previously provided by Snowden from domestic NSA operations consisting of "roughly 160,000 intercepted e-mail and instant-message conversations, some of them hundreds of pages long, and 7,900 documents taken from more than 11,000 online accounts." He did not read the 160k emails he provided to the W…

Since foreign organizations were mentioned up-thread: Were that many emails and documents only provided to American newspapers or also non-American ones?

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#467

Post by samdfonseca »

dingoegret wrote: post #404
samdfonseca wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "arbitrary confinement in the Ecuadorian embassy, to his oppressive isolation, harassment and surveillance inside the embassy, and from deliberate collective ridicule, insults and humiliation" Not only hyperbole, but it's entirely self-imposed. He wasn't confined to the embassy, he chose to stay there rather than face trial. He chose "deliberate collective ridicule, insults and humiliation" over defending himself a…

I don't know why you don't think a trial doesn't carry seriously negative and scary connotations, but it does and no rational person just subjects themselves to persecution.

I agree that standing trial for rape must be terrifying, but that doesn't mean he's being persecuted. We've agreed upon a system of justice that best protects the rights of both the accuser and the accused, and he decided to deny the alleged victim their day in court. He was free to leave the embassy, he was free to defend himself from humiliation, but he chose not to.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#468

Post by dependenttypes »

mariorossi666 wrote: post #442
dependenttypes wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> please stop saying that This is the first time that I said that... > He was arguing that the definition of rape should not change based on the country you're in, or to put it in other words: if you are 16 in Italy, you can give consent to have sex, if you are 17 years and 364 days old in U.S.A., you can't. Yes, just because having consensual sex with a 17 and 364 days years old is illegal in some places and the law…

> This is the first time that I said that... many have done before you, and still doing it. So, please stop. It never happened. > Yes, just because having consensual sex with a 17 and 364 days years old is illegal in some places and the law there calls it rape it does not make it rape in reality Stallman was arguing exactly on the opposite: just because it is of legal age in some country, it doesn't make rape any les…

> Stallman was arguing exactly on the opposite: just because it is of legal age in some country, it doesn't make rape any less rape.

Stallman was replying to "Giuffre was 17 at the time; this makes it rape in the Virgin Isiands." with "Does it really? I think it is moraily absurd to define "rape" in a way that depends on minor details such as which country it was in or whether the victim was 18 years old or 17. i think the existence of a dispute about that supports my point that the term "sexuai assault" is slippery, so we ought to use more concrete terms when accusing anyone."

> https://web.archive.org/web/20190502114026/https://www.aklag...

They use rape as to include breaking a condom -- which is exactly why Stallman and I are against using terms like rape to describe a much less serious (or a much more serious) offence, because it confuses people.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#469

Post by joshuamorton »

danShumway wrote: post #291
ttul wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The espionage act is a horrible piece of legislation. So challenge it. Go fight the charges. Take the spotlight and let everyone see how unjust the law is. Fleeing from the law made Assange seem like a coward, which worked against his cause. There is no better way to seem guilty than to run from a legal process that most people feel is fair, even if you personally think otherwise.

> Fleeing from the law made Assange seem like a coward, which worked against his cause. There is no better way to seem guilty than to run from a legal process that most people feel is fair, even if you personally think otherwise. This comment comes up a lot in regards to Snowden too. I'm not a huge fan of Assange, but my feeling is that the people who whistleblow on corrupt governments at great personal risk don't ow…

Snowden hasn't, I don't believe, ever claimed that the law he broke was particularly unjust or that he'd be unfairly persecuted should he return to the US. He just felt that breaking the law was worth it, and importantly was and is comfortable living with the consequences.

Assange didn't do that. He just claims unfair persecution.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#470

Post by efa »

dependenttypes wrote: post #329
mariorossi666 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't steal online data. You can only copy it that's stealing a document in anyone's book. > Exposed crimes against the constitution by the government and the military to the peopl You're arguing with me, but I agree with you, I'm simply saying that a military court said that. That's why I said technically. The law is all about technicalities. Manning wore a uniform, she was subject to court-martial, and court-…

> that's stealing a document in anyone's book. It would certainly be stealing if she deleted the documents in the server afterwards, which she did not. Stealing implies that the original is gone in everyday speech. Most people would be very upset if you stole their car, not so much if you copied it. > I'm simply saying that a military court said that. You might want to edit your previous post then. From "technically…

So copying Coke's secret formula is not stealing?
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