Live data from Hacker News

Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

bbc.com

291–300 of 784 posts

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#291
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not arguing that the case is unjust. I’m refuting the argument that he was free to leave at any time. I see where the two cross, so I’ll argue the former here: He’s wanted because he embarrassed the United States government. Espionage laws are a horrible attack on free speech and freedom of the press and I’m appalled the Supreme Court previously ruled they’re constitutional.

The espionage act is a horrible piece of legislation. So challenge it. Go fight the charges. Take the spotlight and let everyone see how unjust the law is. Fleeing from the law made Assange seem like a coward, which worked against his cause. There is no better way to seem guilty than to run from a legal process that most people feel is fair, even if you personally think otherwise.

> Fleeing from the law made Assange seem like a coward, which worked against his cause. There is no better way to seem guilty than to run from a legal process that most people feel is fair, even if you personally think otherwise.

This comment comes up a lot in regards to Snowden too. I'm not a huge fan of Assange, but my feeling is that the people who whistleblow on corrupt governments at great personal risk don't owe you their martyrdom as well. It's very easy to claim that other people should be sacrificial lambs, but typically that argument falls apart once it gets personal -- if the government was attacking people in this forum right now, we wouldn't see so many people arguing that they had a duty to allow themselves to be used as an example of the potential harm.

I believe people like Snowden have the right to try and protect themselves from unjust systems, and fleeing from said systems is a particularly harmless measure with very few problematic knock-on effects.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He doesn’t deserve a better response. People who don’t support Assange can get fucked.

[flagged]

Fake news. The ICE camps were put in place during the Obama presidency, with HRC playing key roles in the overall Obama administration.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having sex with an unconscious (due to sleep) woman counts as rape in the UK. Only the UK and Sweden's laws matter when extraditing between those countries.

waking up with sex isnt the same as unconscious sex. and its apparent from the description in the article that it was consensual

The allegation is there was no consent. From the arrest warrant:

> 4. Rape

> On 17 August 2010, in the home of the injured party [SW] in Enkoping, Assange deliberately consummated sexual intercourse with her by improperly exploiting that she, due to sleep was in a helpless state.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She wasn't technically a whistleblower, technically she stole classified documents and betrayed her country that she swore to protect. The military have a different way of dealing with justice, especially in U.S. She was in fact sentenced by court-martial not by a regular court.

> She wasn't technically a whistleblower How so? > technically she stole classified documents You can't steal online data. You can only copy it. > betrayed her country that she swore to protect Exposed crimes against the constitution by the government and the military to the people. This sounds like a very honourable (and whistleblow-y) thing to do. > She was in fact sentenced by court-martial not by a regular court.…

> You can't steal online data. You can only copy it

that's stealing a document in anyone's book.

> Exposed crimes against the constitution by the government and the military to the peopl

You're arguing with me, but I agree with you, I'm simply saying that a military court said that.

That's why I said technically.

The law is all about technicalities.

Manning wore a uniform, she was subject to court-martial, and court-martial ruled against her.

I'm just reporting it.

> Which is an extremely corrupt move.

Which is what happens when you're in the armed forces and have to deal with justice.

It's the same for everyone who joins the military.

She wasn't treated in a special way.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we go by that definition then everytime your partner is horny and you're not, but you have sex with them regardless you're "sexually assaulted". As you didn't really want to participate.

That's rubbish; you may not be in the mood, but you still consent to it - wanting to do something isn't the same as being horny. The point isn't about being horny, it's if you want to do it - being aroused is a factor you're introducing.

My point was that your partner can be pushy enough that you participate even though you didn't really want to. I.e. they are horny/want to have sex, you don't, yet you still have sex. By the definition above that is sexual assault.

If you don't communicate that you don't want to have sex it becomes a really murky topic, as you didn't give verbal nor non-verbal consent. But you also didn't give verbal nor nnon-verbal disconsent. This could be something you regret afterwards, but I don't think you can attribute that to malintent (or rape/sexual assault) on your sexual partner's side.

So removing the condom mid-act would be sexual assault, a broken condom wouldn't be. But the partner consented to sex with a condom.

Or in case a woman says she's on birthcontrol (or has a spiral) and it later turns out that was false, then you also didn't consent to that.

So basically my second point is that it takes a lot of language to define what is and what isn't sexual assault or rape. Condensing it down would be harmful to victims and people accused.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#296
post #134
post #35

Worth mentioning that Nils Melzer, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, visited Assange and described his treatment as psychological torture: > “It was obvious that Mr. Assange’s health has been seriously affected by the extremely hostile and arbitrary environment he has been exposed to for many years,” the expert said. “Most importantly, in addition to physical ailments, Mr. Assange showed all symptoms typical for…

I find the idea of the threat of prosecution in a free country as a form of "torture" a bit questionable. It's something, but i'm not sure I agree with calling that torture.

If only there was some sort of independent expert to assess the situation for us ;)

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whistleblowers do not deserve to be in prison. Exposing war crimes is good.

Whistleblowing is a focused revelation of wrongdoing. Scraping the secret-classified documents of the State Department, handing them over to a foreign organization, and saying "You'll make the best use of this, I trust you" isn't whistleblowing. At best, it's irresponsible; at worst, it's irresponsibility that walks right up to the edge of malicious treason. I'm very glad Manning wasn't convicted of treason, because…

> handing them over to a foreign organization, and saying "You'll make the best use of this, I trust you" isn't whistleblowing.

So Snowden isn’t a whistleblower because he gave them to the Guardian?

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#298
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, and I do in fact think his most recent incarceration at least borders on torture. But I also think claiming that someone is torturing you while you’ve locked yourself in a room trying to evade questioning in a criminal investigation is ridiculous.

He locked himself in a room trying to evade exactly the treatment he is receiving right now. Is there any precedent in the UK for solitary confinement in Belmarsh for skipping bail on a rape charge in another country?

His treatment in Sweden if he'd complied rather than fleeing justice in the UK would likely have been far better. His dissembling about extradition and all of his actions suggest he was guilty of the rapes and hiding from justice.

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your definition of sexual assault is dangerously lacking in nuance. Most people who have had long term sexual partners have had a time or two where they "didn't really want to participate" but did anyway without much/any complaining for the sake of their partner. Are all all those instances "basically sexual assault"? Watering down the definition of sexual assault to include instances where nobody felt assaulted in a…

While there are situations like you describe where "didn't really want to participate" represents something immoral and selfish but less insidious than what we think of as rape, there are also plenty of situations where it does represent the weighty event of sexual assault. I think your simplification is less nuanced and much more dangerous than the parent's simplification. I also think "overwhelming majority" is a s…

>While there are situations like you describe where "didn't really want to participate" represents something immoral and selfish but less insidious than what we think of as rape, there are also plenty of situations where it does represent the weighty event of sexual assault.

I'm talking strictly about situations where there is no threat of violence.

Obviously there is a spectrum of varying degrees of consent from "perfectly ok" to "definitely rape" and somewhere in there is a range that constitutes sexual assault but to say that the lack of specifically enthusiastic consent defines the floor of the sexual assault range is farcical when there are so many other variables to consider.

>Disclaimer: The parent post was edited after I began replying to be worded a bit less absolutely.

I changed the order of the three points.

>we are mapping "didn't really want to" very differently onto real examples of emotional state.

I think a lot of people find "didn't really want to" to be equivalent to "really didn't want to"

Re: Sweden Drops Julian Assange Rape Investigation

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She wasn't technically a whistleblower, technically she stole classified documents and betrayed her country that she swore to protect. The military have a different way of dealing with justice, especially in U.S. She was in fact sentenced by court-martial not by a regular court.

>betrayed her country that she swore to protect Hasn't she in fact protected her country from commiting further war crimes?

Has she? https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/08/15/america-is-committing-a...
Post reply on HN