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One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

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Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#571

Post by repolfx »

Faark wrote: post #359
repolfx wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physical safety trumps most other things in our culture, rightly so. So political activists realised they can brainwash or pressure idiots by claiming that any opinion, person or class of people they don't like creates "lack of safety". It's a kneejerk reaction: safety first. The worst case I saw of this so far was an event organised by my workplace, for teaching programming. But straight white men were banned. If yo…

> So political activists realised they can brainwash or pressure idiots by claiming that any opinion, person or class of people they don't like creates "lack of safety". It's a kneejerk reaction: safety first. People didn't just suddenly start killing jews in nazi germany. It starts with a shift in sentiment and you probably want to stop that before it gains momentum. That makes me understand how e.g. the "there are…

Look at codebar.io and then adjust your priors for what you consider a "right wing caricature". In particular read https://codebar.io/student-guide#eligibility (straight white men not eligible) and the preamble on the first page.

No reasonable lefties spoke up against this. Indeed they defended it as necessary and proportionate, as they did when the company started discriminating against men in other ways.

People didn't just suddenly start killing jews in nazi germany

Comparisons to the Nazis are especially stupid in this context because you're right, they didn't just start killing Jews. They started by banning them from various high-status roles and jobs, describing them as the source of problems, hypothesising a Zionist Conspiracy to explain why so many Jews were running rich companies etc.

And that's exactly what we see happening today against ordinary white guys. These days if we're CEOs/on company boards/in high earning jobs it's a problem that needs a "solution" (sound familiar?), it's the result of a conspiracy of the patriarchy, and the solutions start with banning white men from educational opportunities, speaking opportunities, replacing them on boards and so on.

No reasonable lefties spoke up about any of this in Germany either, because the left is fundamentally built on narratives about oppression by one identity group of another. It always has been. It gives people easy excuses for their situation in life. Whether it's the proles vs the capitalists, Jews vs the Aryans, women vs men, blacks vs whites, LGTBQ vs straight white men, if there's a way to treat people as lumpen groups and pit them against each other then you'll find the left doing so as much as they can. The 21st century is no different.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#572

Post by PunchTornado »

celticninja wrote: post #373
repolfx wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't really asking, are they? Asking is a question at TGIF. What these people were doing is trying to create a bloc of activists that comes with the implied or explicit threat of coordinated employee action or pressure, as they've engaged in previously. They're pushing the boundaries to see how much control over management they really have.

I disagree, this shows that it is not a niche concern, and management should be aware of the workers concerns, they can overrule them if they want, but your workers are you first set of customers, so you can expect a similar pushback from your main customer base. So again if you want to overrule concerns you have a better idea of what they are and how to challenge them.

of course this works only for some political opinions. Others, like the ones expressed by Damore grant you fired.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#573

Post by leftyted »

austhrow743 wrote: post #553
leftyted wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My empoyer doesn't have a lot of power over me. I'm a programmer not a coal miner. I don't want to be in a union. I don't want to join some club. I don't want to pay dues. I don't want to read newsletters or listen to speeches or be involved at all in the grubby, underhanded manuevering for power that would come with a union. And I'm tired of people condescendingly telling me that I'm wrong for feeling this way. I'm…

Don't volunteer at a soup kitchen as a software engineer if you want to do good. Volunteer at a soup kitchen if you want to get some warm fuzzies. It's near a complete waste of your time from a doing good standpoint. You have a highly in demand, specialised skillset. Use it to earn money and donate to a soup kitchen (or a more efficient charity) instead. Hardness of an activity or it involving things you don't want t…

That's a utilitarian definition of "goodness," which can be useful (though not always). But it's not how people actually experience "goodness".

It's like suggesting that everyone should give gifts of 100 dollars to each other for Christmas. No one wants that. People aren't rational agents with utility functions or, if they are, the utility functions are unknown, vary from person to person, and are not solely based on material well-being (my guess is that they're mostly based on the esteem we estimate that we have in the eyes of our peers).

Pick a problem in your community, directly contribute to its solution, and you will be happier plus the people around you will respect you more. If you give money, that won't be the case. You can insist on a strict utilitarian perspective but you're fighting reality and you can't rewire your brain.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#574

Post by [deleted] »

stronglikedan wrote: post #307
aedron wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With 20 years experience under my belt, it is my firm belief that the workplace is not a place to discuss politics, religion, or other highly personal and divisive issues. Obviously, this extends even more to the workplace itself bringing these topics up. I'm not aggressive or even obvious about this disposition, I just gently steer clear of violating it. I feel the same should apply to companies, fine if you want to…

> With 20 years experience under my belt, it is my firm belief that the workplace is not a place to discuss politics, religion, or other highly personal and divisive issues. I, too, old this belief, but it's kind of hard when the "new culture" is overwhelmed with a sense of entitlement to "be heard". Everyone thinks their individual opinions should be able to be shared whenever they feel the need to be validated, and…

[deleted]

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#575

Post by RobertRoberts »

javagram wrote: post #561
RobertRoberts wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want the pendulum to stop swinging. This means everyone needs to stay in the middle. No religion at school and no religion at work, it's a balance that makes sure one doesn't oppress the others. When a group of people are given a pass because everyone is afraid of them, then we have the start of tyranny.

That is pretty anti-religious, and your expectation of “tyranny” from a small minority of devout Muslim believers is ridiculous. It reminds me of American liberals who believe “Christian dominionists” are hiding around the corner ready to take power in some sort of real-life Handmaid’s Tale. In reality most people just want to be allowed to do their own private thing and be treated well by others. Going into a room i…

Hypocrisy is the issue. If you choose to support one religion over another you are then you are taking sides on religion. What that topic is (in this case a room) is irrelevant in respects to hypocrisy. Hypocrisy weakens your resolve to do what is right and just.

Sharia law will be considered a religious right in the future in the US. And because we were hypocrites before, we will be hypocrites again. And if you don't think Sharia law will bring violence with it, I can provide links for you to study.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#576

Post by austhrow743 »

leftyted wrote: post #573
austhrow743 wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't volunteer at a soup kitchen as a software engineer if you want to do good. Volunteer at a soup kitchen if you want to get some warm fuzzies. It's near a complete waste of your time from a doing good standpoint. You have a highly in demand, specialised skillset. Use it to earn money and donate to a soup kitchen (or a more efficient charity) instead. Hardness of an activity or it involving things you don't want t…

That's a utilitarian definition of "goodness," which can be useful (though not always). But it's not how people actually experience "goodness". It's like suggesting that everyone should give gifts of 100 dollars to each other for Christmas. No one wants that. People aren't rational agents with utility functions or, if they are, the utility functions are unknown, vary from person to person, and are not solely based on…

If "If you want to do good, volunteer at a soup kitchen. Of course that would be hard and would involve looking at things you'd rather not see." was not meant as a criticism for not acting in a utilitarian way then my apologies, I misunderstood your comment.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#577

Post by meowface »

normalnorm wrote: post #500
lotsofpulp wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US law holds the employer responsible for what happens on their computers. No one cares to if you check your email every now and then or read the news. But how can an organization protect itself from the myriad ways someone can damage the computer or others on the network without monitoring it? In addition, everyone has a personal computer in their pocket they can use if they want privacy.

Yes, yes. There is always some legal reason with you guys. Somehow we manage here in Europe. Go figure...

But how do you manage? That's why I wanted to hear from infosec operations people who work in Europe. Security breaches can be a massive risk for an organization, and there are undoubtedly a lot of serious security issues, which could've turned into something much worse, that my team at my old job would've missed if we had absolutely no right to look at network and web traffic from a company computer.

I do agree that there should be more requirements to look at data, though. Managers requesting bullshit fishing expeditions to see if an employee is slacking off should be required to submit some sort of evidence before making the request. That never sat right with me, or anyone on my team. But for security issues, there was no question that there was an absolute necessity and justified reason to look at that information.

I'm asking because my concern is maybe European corporate infosec people really aren't managing, here, and are blind to some ongoing major security issues.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#578

Post by [deleted] »

JohnBooty wrote: post #318
mcv wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between using the computer and expecting privacy on it. It's entirely possible that you're not supposed to use certain equipment for personal use, but if you do it anyway, that doesn't erode your right to privacy. I'm not saying this is always the case in the EU, though. Obviously there is equipment where for many reasons it's absolutely vital that you don't use it for anything personal. I'm not…

I would have to agree. A company decrypting my encrypted traffic would not be okay. I would be okay with them knowing I visited the banking site on company time (if I used their equipment, their DNS, etc) but not with decrypting the SSL encrypted data I'm exchanging with the bank or obtaining it in some other way such as a keylogger. Though again, I'd probably avoid the issue entirely by using my own device and data…

[deleted]

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#579

Post by meowface »

eythian wrote: post #239
lotsofpulp wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expecting to have the same rights as if using your own devices when using someone else’s device that they are paying you to perform work on qualifies as an indignity to me. Do people in EU countries expect to use any other of their employer’s equipment for personal reasons?

Of course. It's completely normal to use company stuff for your own things, within reason. I print tickets or whatever at work, from my work laptop. Everyone does that, and no one cares so long as it's not abusive. It's a weird idea that you have to be a complete robot at work and only ever do work things.

I agree, but I think if you do that, you should accept the employer having the right to potentially be able to see that information.

In practice, from doing many of these investigations, no one bats an eye or gives a single shit about what kind of non-work activities you're doing. The visit to the ticket website would just be a few entries in a long list of other web visit entries, which we'd quickly scroll past while trying to find the thing we're actually looking for (usually malware-related traffic).

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#580

Post by 3xblah »

janpot wrote: post #210
3xblah wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps by doing the monitoring client-side they can get reports both on successful attempts to create a calendar event as well as unsuccessful attempts to create a calendar event. For example, even if the browser for some reason cannot connect to the server and no event is actually created, perhaps the extension still reports on the "attempt" to create an event.

ah yes, So it can report back to its server when the network is down. oh wait...

Ah, no.

What if the network is up, but the server is down.

If the network were the issue, Chrome could log the attempts to a local store then send the report when the network is up again.

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