One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions • Hacker News Board

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#241

Post by lapnitnelav » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 11:45 AM UTC

buboard wrote: post #218

say_it_as_it_is wrote: post #208

What we are seeing are the consequences of "Employee Capture". Google captured the hearts and minds of its employees for workplace productivity. Its side effects are varied. The real world only sees highlights. Googled created a bubble from which its employees can socialize without ever needing to do so with the outside world. Why talk politics with the outside world? Stay with us, where it is safe, people are intell…

Might this be the bigger problem of "bowling alone"? There s fewer and fewer places where small groups or people meet, and 1-to-1 socialization is not the same.

I think it goes deeper than that. Can't tell you how many times I've seen people boil down their identity to "I'm a Googler / Xoogler / ..."

They go out in the pub around the corner after work with their company badge on display, they leverage having worked at Google in later jobs as if it has blessed them with infinite wisdom and knowledge.

It's quite cringe worthy to see people fall into that trap. And yes, it's not every single one of them but not exactly a fringe group either.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#242

Post by gwbas1c » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 11:47 AM UTC

RangerScience wrote: post #138

gwbas1c wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps put you biases aside? There are white supremacists who don't think they're racist. (It's kind of like someone claiming they aren't homophobic but also opposing gay marriage.) It's a complicated subject. IMO, I don't see how someone can be a racist / homophobe in secret; thus I don't see a justification for spying on a co-worker just to find out things like this.

> Perhaps put you biases aside? I don't follow? Maybe try rephrasing? > can be a racist / homophobe in secret I can kind of see that, but, the KKK wears hoods? > I don't see a justification for spying on a co-worker Hmm. I don't have an examined opinion on this, outside of general hesitation to go looking for problems for reasons such as confirmation bias and whatever the name is for what self-fulfilling-prophecies l…

Because you're using your biases against people who think differently than you to justify immoral behavior.

Edit: You don't need to tolerate bad behavior, but it goes both ways: You can't justify bad behavior in the name of policing other peoples' dumb actions.

Or: Two wrongs don't make a right.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#243

Post by spaceribs » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 11:47 AM UTC

steev wrote: post #234

spaceribs wrote: post #7

As an engineer, I revel in avoiding these monolithic supercorps. I don't know why anyone would want to work in centralizing innovation and creativity into the hands of a few greedy people.

The scale and complexity of the problems is appealing to some people. There are very few companies where you get to work on problems with the same scale problems as Google.

I admit, this is the one reason I can definitely see as appealing, but don't these big issues exist to an even more extreme extent with systems like Medicare, Veterans Affairs and Social Security?

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#244

Post by repolfx » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 11:48 AM UTC

celticninja wrote: post #224

PunchTornado wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> earlier this month, more than 1,000 employees called on the company to cancel deals with oil and gas companies. what's wrong with these employees? Keep your political opinions to yourself. So they propose that my company lose money because of your activism. Don't agree! What if some employees asked that Google cancel any deals with climate change NGOs? How would these employees feel about it?

What's wrong with asking? The company doesn't have to agree, but there is no harm in asking.

They aren't really asking, are they? Asking is a question at TGIF. What these people were doing is trying to create a bloc of activists that comes with the implied or explicit threat of coordinated employee action or pressure, as they've engaged in previously. They're pushing the boundaries to see how much control over management they really have.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#245

Post by chii » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 11:48 AM UTC

josefx wrote: post #198

chance_state wrote: post #10

>In the past, one of the employees said, employees could review internal documents for virtually any project underway within the company. In recent years, however, more projects have become closed off and accessible only to smaller groups on a “need-to-know” basis, the employee said. >Earlier this year, following a series of leaks to the media, Google executives tightened their grip. They shut down thousands of contr…

> Can someone explain what the controversy is here? Google had some rather controversial projects that officially got shutdown over employees being rightfully concerned. An example would be the highly censored Chinese dragonfly search engine. Google clamping down on project information on a "need to know" basis could be seen as rather problematic when you consider that management considers that kind of project accept…

> Google clamping down on project information on a "need to know" basis could be seen as rather problematic when you consider that management considers that kind of project acceptable.

it's daft, but upper management/owners can choose to do the most profitable project, and the employee's choices are to quit or comply (or give reasons why the project is not profitable, and offer an alternative).

An employee cannot really complain/shutdown the project on moral/political-ideology grounds, at the cost of shareholder profit, while they themselves suffer no ill consequence (since they get paid a salary regardless).

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#246

Post by bonesss » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 11:49 AM UTC

swiley wrote: post #41

skissane wrote: post #28

> The documents concerned a mandatory tool that was recently installed on the Google Chrome browser on workers’ computers, the employees said. In October, some Google employees raised concerns that the Chrome extension was an internal surveillance tool designed to monitor their attempts to organize protests. It would automatically report staffers who create a calendar event with more than 10 rooms or 100 participants…

The monitors probably (correctly) aren’t authorized to use the API.

The API is made to make automation around calendaring tasks easy. You can pull up appointments, see who booked them, and manage their state. (https://developers.google.com/calendar/overview)

Tracking activity in activity planning software isn't quite as nefarious as looking at peoples emails. Pulling up the meeting bookers boss and sending an email to them & legal is pretty bog standard integration work.

As stated, I can't see any requirement for a client-side footprint...

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#247

Post by repolfx » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 11:56 AM UTC

cryptica wrote: post #214

>> The tracking had made the staff in those departments feel unsafe It's very strange how often this idea of 'feeling unsafe' is coming up in the media now. It seems that either: - People have become more fragile/sensitive; or - People have become more aggressive. I think it may be both. I think corporations create extremely unnatural, oppressive and coercive environments which makes people more outwardly sensitive b…

Physical safety trumps most other things in our culture, rightly so.

So political activists realised they can brainwash or pressure idiots by claiming that any opinion, person or class of people they don't like creates "lack of safety". It's a kneejerk reaction: safety first.

The worst case I saw of this so far was an event organised by my workplace, for teaching programming. But straight white men were banned. If you were a white man you had to show photos from Facebook to prove you were gay. The justification for sexism and racism was stated as creating a "safe" and "collaborative" environment. Implication: straight white men are unsafe. Except when they're teaching, of course. Then they're needed, so stop being unsafe.

There's nothing new about this sort of abuse. Orwell focused on the way leftists constantly manipulate language in 1984 with the idea of Newspeak. Consider the contradictory term "dictatorship of the proletariat" or how every communist country calls itself a People's Republic despite not being a republic, nor run by/for the people.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#248

Post by Hitton » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 11:57 AM UTC

say_it_as_it_is wrote: post #208

What we are seeing are the consequences of "Employee Capture". Google captured the hearts and minds of its employees for workplace productivity. Its side effects are varied. The real world only sees highlights. Googled created a bubble from which its employees can socialize without ever needing to do so with the outside world. Why talk politics with the outside world? Stay with us, where it is safe, people are intell…

Funny thing is, that although Google boasts about its racial and gender diversity, there is preciously little ideological diversity. And once people stray, they must be purged.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#249

Post by cryptica » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 11:59 AM UTC

nyolfen wrote: post #233

cryptica wrote: post #214

>> The tracking had made the staff in those departments feel unsafe It's very strange how often this idea of 'feeling unsafe' is coming up in the media now. It seems that either: - People have become more fragile/sensitive; or - People have become more aggressive. I think it may be both. I think corporations create extremely unnatural, oppressive and coercive environments which makes people more outwardly sensitive b…

it's just a fashionable rhetorical lever

I guess also employees are more likely to use 'feeling unsafe' as an excuse to get more control within the company.

So for example, if you want to get someone fired in order to take their position, and that person is already in a difficult position for whatever reason, you can just say "That person makes me feel unsafe" as a way to break the camel's back and finally get your promotion.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#250

Post by normalnorm » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 12:02 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #229

normalnorm wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one has a feeling of their privacy being violated, because there's no expectation of privacy when using someone else's (the company's) property. Excellent. Now you only have to remove the expectation of privacy in any situation from the social norms, and another big problem will be solved. You will be able to live under total surveillance without anyone feeling that their privacy is being violated, because there…

Expecting to have the same rights as if using your own devices when using someone else’s device that they are paying you to perform work on qualifies as an indignity to me. Do people in EU countries expect to use any other of their employer’s equipment for personal reasons?

> Expecting to have the same rights as if using your own devices when using someone else’s device that they are paying you to perform work on qualifies as an indignity to me.

Every single second that you are working, you know that your employer might be looking over your shoulder. It's like living under a microscope. For me, this is an indignity. Having to work in such circumstances would probably drive me to deep depression.

> Do people in EU countries expect to use any other of their employer’s equipment for personal reasons?

Within reason, sure. I would say that the main value that underlies all EU countries (not that we realize it perfectly, or even get close to it, of course!) is that human beings are the most important thing.

I find mainstream American values increasingly inhumane.