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One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

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Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#121

Post by ChuckMcM »

chongli wrote: post #79
robbya wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Installing an extension to monitor employee use of a company computer is legal and generally accepted behavior. If the Google calendar is for a personal gmail account, then accessing the calendar details server side is a huge privacy breach.

It’s not legal if employers specifically use it to disrupt employees’ attempts to organize. The NLRA specifically grants employees the right to organize and it prohibits employers from monitoring these organizing employees. The fact that Google employees, in this case, may not be considering forming a union at this time is irrelevant. The meetings they are having may prompt them to form one at a later time. Either wa…

Like it was a "safety hazard" to have too many people at once in the smoking area behind the textile mill. It is a slippery slope to try to tease apart what is, and what isn't, interference right?

Google also has a clause in their employment agreement that says you agree to them putting surveillance software on your devices, company supplied and personal, as a condition of your employment. I asked about that one, got the HR response "Well I suppose you could interpret it that way, but that isn't what we mean." and I said, "Okay, lets change it to say what you mean." and got the "Well we really aren't in a position to change these documents, it would be a mess trying to track a zillion individual agreements." etc etc. That rabbit hole of pushing back and forth leads to "perhaps Google isn't the right place for you." :-)

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#122

Post by [deleted] »

kjgkjhfkjf wrote: post #43

Although it's generally quite hard to get fired from Google, leakers have always been dealt with severely. Google once upon a time fired a member of the original Macintosh team for leaking information about the Christmas bonus. My guess is that the increased closing off of various documents is to do with the increased amount of confidential partner-related information as Google scales its cloud business. But, as is o…

[deleted]

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#123

Post by akhilcacharya »

mav3rick wrote: post #120
akhilcacharya wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People work hard at all companies, including mine. Google isn’t special, except the people there seem to work less on average from the people I know. > Some of the smartest and diligent people work here. Yikes. Y’all are not as special as you think you are.

"From the people I know " Cherry pick the 5 people you know. 99% of people will join Google on HN. So will most of Amazon. Don't kid yourself.

You can’t possibly know that to a high degree of certainty, especially since you haven’t explained why you think so. I sure hope this isn’t what happens inside of Google - doesn’t sound like an inclusive atmosphere to look down on others!

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#124

Post by javagram »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #119
javagram wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re already keeping your social media protected/private, that seems like a pretty good sign that you’re not a political troublemaker or activist. Private social media accounts don’t have virality or reach. I keep my own twitter and facebook private because I have no interest in accidentally igniting a feeding frenzy if I post something wrong on social media. But it’s equally true that if I wanted to make a fuss…

If you’re already keeping your social media protected/private, that seems like a pretty good sign that you’re not a political troublemaker or activist. How do you figure that? I keep most of my social media stuff private but I would happily participate in, for instance, a unionization campaign and I will vocally support the sorts of folks that people like Damore seek to condemn.

I guess it depends on your definition of activist. When I hear that, I think of someone like prominent tech twitter personalities who are employed at places like google/github and like to get into flame wars on twitter and so on. I assumed that’s what the person was talking about as well.

I think there are plenty of people who might sign onto a union election or unionization at work who aren’t social media bomb throwers. I’d consider it myself if it came up and were convinced it would be good for me as an employee. I don’t think an employer looking through public social feeds would be very effective in screening that out, especially in technology where the majority of employees are openly liberal and Democrat in my experience.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#125

Post by gwbas1c »

RangerScience wrote: post #117
gwbas1c wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with political causes is that there is no objective definition of "good" and "bad." At this point, the co-worker's discomfort of working with an African-American or an openly gay person pretty much helps bring these issues out in the open rather quickly. (And yes, I've been in a similar situation when a co-worker freaked out that I don't believe in Jesus, that I see the Bible as literature instead of fact…

But, there is an available objective definition of "tolerate": as a peace treaty. You are tolerated as long as you tolerate. If you don't (as in, say, the case of the KKK), well, by non-participation in the "treaty", you no longer have to be tolerated by anyone adhering to it. OFC, this doesn't work in all circumstances, but, perhaps, it should be applied in all circumstances in which it _could_.

Perhaps put you biases aside? There are white supremacists who don't think they're racist. (It's kind of like someone claiming they aren't homophobic but also opposing gay marriage.)

It's a complicated subject.

IMO, I don't see how someone can be a racist / homophobe in secret; thus I don't see a justification for spying on a co-worker just to find out things like this.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#126

Post by mindslight »

RangerScience wrote: post #117
gwbas1c wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with political causes is that there is no objective definition of "good" and "bad." At this point, the co-worker's discomfort of working with an African-American or an openly gay person pretty much helps bring these issues out in the open rather quickly. (And yes, I've been in a similar situation when a co-worker freaked out that I don't believe in Jesus, that I see the Bible as literature instead of fact…

But, there is an available objective definition of "tolerate": as a peace treaty. You are tolerated as long as you tolerate. If you don't (as in, say, the case of the KKK), well, by non-participation in the "treaty", you no longer have to be tolerated by anyone adhering to it. OFC, this doesn't work in all circumstances, but, perhaps, it should be applied in all circumstances in which it _could_.

> you no longer have to be tolerated by anyone adhering to it.

The point of tolerance is to tolerate.

Just because you have managed to find an intolerant viewpoint that survives our current memetic filter, does not change the reality that you're the one preaching intolerance, right here.

Hate movements throughout history have been supported by logical-sounding arguments for marginalizing some outgroup. I don't think that stoking rage against backwards political ideas is virulent enough to end in killing fields per se, but even the current increased polarization is not good.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#127

Post by javagram »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #116
javagram wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be shocked if amazon in fact had a policy that only Muslims could use the prayer rooms. Christians and Jews should be able to use them if they choose. I googled around and could only find statements that Muslim employees of a security contractor for amazon were not allowed to use the rooms for a while, but after protests and NLRB intervention now are.

Maybe because in the US we have religious freedom so we don't feel the need to protest to demand others accommodate us? It's like a millionaire eating at a restaurant, and instead of tipping the waitress he expects to be tipped by the waitress. The extra demands only leave a bad taste in everyone else's mouths.

I don’t really understand the relation of your comment to mine.

I’ve worked at a (US) company with a prayer room that was used by some Muslim employees. As a Christian myself, I don’t think it would have been considered a problem if I used it when it was vacant to say a prayer, although my religious tradition doesn’t have the 5x/day prayer requirement like Islam does so I never did.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#128

Post by mav3rick »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #123
mav3rick wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"From the people I know " Cherry pick the 5 people you know. 99% of people will join Google on HN. So will most of Amazon. Don't kid yourself.

You can’t possibly know that to a high degree of certainty, especially since you haven’t explained why you think so. I sure hope this isn’t what happens inside of Google - doesn’t sound like an inclusive atmosphere to look down on others!

Your post also exaggerated and extrapolated everyone working there as "slackers". Not too mention the combative attitude HN has toward Googlers anyway. "How can they work their morally" etc .

Anyway I won't engage further. And I won't get personal. I still think it's a great company to grow as an engineer. You should definitely explore if you ever want to move on.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#129

Post by [deleted] »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #110
pheug wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The greed as well? Normal jobs aren't paying anything close to 200-300k+ that you'd be pulling at FAANG/HFT.

$200k-$300k is now the 1-3 years out of new grad pay scale for those companies for what it’s worth.

[deleted]

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#130

Post by defen »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #121
chongli wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not legal if employers specifically use it to disrupt employees’ attempts to organize. The NLRA specifically grants employees the right to organize and it prohibits employers from monitoring these organizing employees. The fact that Google employees, in this case, may not be considering forming a union at this time is irrelevant. The meetings they are having may prompt them to form one at a later time. Either wa…

Like it was a "safety hazard" to have too many people at once in the smoking area behind the textile mill. It is a slippery slope to try to tease apart what is, and what isn't, interference right? Google also has a clause in their employment agreement that says you agree to them putting surveillance software on your devices, company supplied and personal, as a condition of your employment. I asked about that one, got…

> Google also has a clause in their employment agreement that says you agree to them putting surveillance software on your devices, company supplied and personal, as a condition of your employment.

How would Google even know about your personal devices? That seems to only make sense if you intend to use your personal device for work.

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