One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions • Hacker News Board

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#111

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 4:54 AM UTC

catalogia wrote: post #102

jessaustin wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first possibility, that of inaccurate reporting, is always likely. If that turns out not to be the case, the next most likely possibility is probably not that these brilliant people who are paid extravagantly to create and maintain a wide array of popular products and services are "totally unreasonable". I would suggest that they might have a different cultural understanding of workplace privacy norms. Their diff…

> "People who believed in that openness would just expect that everyone's work schedule, and lots of other information besides, would be online so that all their coworkers could effectively coordinate." If that's an accurate characterization of what the employee doing the calendar tracking was doing, then I agree that it was reasonable in the context of Google employment. However that would mean the article is very m…

I think the surmise in your last paragraph is basically correct. I have no idea if there was any stalking going on. My calendar is public within the company like everyone else, but I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable if I found that an enemy were using that information to harass or intimidate me, and I would expect management to deal with that severely. This goes twice for engineers stalking HR people, since generally the HR folks have much less power and influence in the organization.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#112

Post by akhilcacharya » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 4:55 AM UTC

mav3rick wrote: post #103

bsder wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they want a nice paycheck and to go home at 5:00PM.

You have no idea how hard people work here. Some of the smartest and diligent people work here. It's a big company so your friends maybe doing 9 to 5. But HN will never mention all the people who put in the hard yards at Google.

People work hard at all companies, including mine. Google isn’t special, except the people there seem to work less on average from the people I know.

> Some of the smartest and diligent people work here.

Yikes. Y’all are not as special as you think you are.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#113

Post by manfredo » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 4:58 AM UTC

mason55 wrote: post #33

seibelj wrote: post #11

How about everyone goes to work and does their job and goes home. You can believe X, I can believe Y, and both of us believe Z, but XYZ doesn’t have anything to do with doing our jobs so we shouldn’t let it prevent us from doing our jobs. Super cool that everyone likes their own things though, I support liking things unrelated to job, just weird that people demand that their job adheres to whatever weird thing they l…

> You can believe X, I can believe Y, and both of us believe Z, but XYZ doesn’t have anything to do with doing our jobs so we shouldn’t let it prevent us from doing our jobs. It's easy to say this if your coworker likes football and you think sports are dumb. But what if your coworker likes attending KKK rallies and you're African-American? Or your co-worker is out there on the weekend holding signs that say "Death t…

Do you genuinely believe that the cultural issues at Google are about employees announcing their support for the Klu Klux Klan, or calling for the deaths of gays? Do you think this kind of rhetoric is productive?

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#114

Post by manfredo » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 5:03 AM UTC

ahelwer wrote: post #13

xhkkffbf wrote: post #3

I've liked many things about Google over the years and I still admire many parts of their stack. But this crazy internal political culture is bound to end in a big kaboom and it looks like this might be it. Evolution has created the rules that one doesn't mix politics with business. Google has skirted this rule for some time but now it's not going to be pretty.

> Evolution has created the rules that one doesn't mix politics with business This 'rule' is a purely artificial construct encouraged to ensure the common employees keep their heads down and let those in charge continue screwing over them and/or society. The history of organized labor involves no less than straight murder of labor activists by company owners.

Yeah, no. I broadly agree with the what many activists at tech companies are supporting, but think that its deliberate attempts to make the workplace more political are unproductive or backfiring. When it gets to the point that a significant percentage of employees are feigning or exaggerating support for political positions to fit in, you have a problem. And the tech companies I've worked at in the SF Bay Area for the last four years have been in that position.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#115

Post by flukus » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 5:12 AM UTC

Pfhreak wrote: post #73

flukus wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Advocating for parental leave? Politics. Mothers rooms? Politics. Prayer rooms? Politics. Trans inclusive health care? Politics. Domestic partner benefits? Politics. Yep all politics. As political issues they should be dealt with in the political arena of whichever branch of government is responsible. If you strongly believe in these rights and priveleges you'd be spending your time advocating for universal access…

Companies should only do the minimum required by law? We only win if everyone gets the benefit? I disagree, you are making perfect the enemy of good. The only solution is not "make the government mandate the solution".

> Companies should only do the minimum required by law?

Whether they should or not is irrelevant, it's what they do. Companies com and go, companies that spend more than they have to tend to go faster, employers change even more frequently. Do you want to put up this fight every time you change employers? Do you want to be stuck at one employer because changing jobs means losing benefits?

> We only win if everyone gets the benefit?

I don't consider getting these benefits for the privileged few with job mobility to be much of a win. Even for them it's probably not a long term win.

> The only solution is not "make the government mandate the solution".

It's not the only solution just the best solution, more unionization would be another solution that's way better than a piecemeal company by company approach though. The government solution also offers up some much better alternatives in cases like healthcare.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#116

Post by RobertRoberts » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 5:14 AM UTC

javagram wrote: post #85

RobertRoberts wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reference may be to the fact that Amazon (for example) provided only space for Muslims to have prayer rooms, but no one else.

I’d be shocked if amazon in fact had a policy that only Muslims could use the prayer rooms. Christians and Jews should be able to use them if they choose. I googled around and could only find statements that Muslim employees of a security contractor for amazon were not allowed to use the rooms for a while, but after protests and NLRB intervention now are.

Maybe because in the US we have religious freedom so we don't feel the need to protest to demand others accommodate us?

It's like a millionaire eating at a restaurant, and instead of tipping the waitress he expects to be tipped by the waitress. The extra demands only leave a bad taste in everyone else's mouths.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#117

Post by RangerScience » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 5:15 AM UTC

gwbas1c wrote: post #89

mason55 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can believe X, I can believe Y, and both of us believe Z, but XYZ doesn’t have anything to do with doing our jobs so we shouldn’t let it prevent us from doing our jobs. It's easy to say this if your coworker likes football and you think sports are dumb. But what if your coworker likes attending KKK rallies and you're African-American? Or your co-worker is out there on the weekend holding signs that say "Death t…

The problem with political causes is that there is no objective definition of "good" and "bad." At this point, the co-worker's discomfort of working with an African-American or an openly gay person pretty much helps bring these issues out in the open rather quickly. (And yes, I've been in a similar situation when a co-worker freaked out that I don't believe in Jesus, that I see the Bible as literature instead of fact…

But, there is an available objective definition of "tolerate": as a peace treaty. You are tolerated as long as you tolerate. If you don't (as in, say, the case of the KKK), well, by non-participation in the "treaty", you no longer have to be tolerated by anyone adhering to it.

OFC, this doesn't work in all circumstances, but, perhaps, it should be applied in all circumstances in which it _could_.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#118

Post by mindslight » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 5:17 AM UTC

ajross wrote: post #47

skissane wrote: post #28

> The documents concerned a mandatory tool that was recently installed on the Google Chrome browser on workers’ computers, the employees said. In October, some Google employees raised concerns that the Chrome extension was an internal surveillance tool designed to monitor their attempts to organize protests. It would automatically report staffers who create a calendar event with more than 10 rooms or 100 participants…

An extension is the kind of random IT junk companies push all the time. Pushing surveillance into the server side of a core product is rather more heavy an operation.

But Google's core business is surveillance. Implementing it server-side could make it available as a GSuite feature. Bonus points for passing it through an opaque ML step for plausible deniability. "The 'culture fit' 'algorithm' determined that you hurt team cohesion".

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#119

Post by inferiorhuman » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 5:25 AM UTC

javagram wrote: post #88

inferiorhuman wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what if you do not give HR access to your social media?

If you’re already keeping your social media protected/private, that seems like a pretty good sign that you’re not a political troublemaker or activist. Private social media accounts don’t have virality or reach. I keep my own twitter and facebook private because I have no interest in accidentally igniting a feeding frenzy if I post something wrong on social media. But it’s equally true that if I wanted to make a fuss…

If you’re already keeping your social media protected/private, that seems like a pretty good sign that you’re not a political troublemaker or activist.

How do you figure that? I keep most of my social media stuff private but I would happily participate in, for instance, a unionization campaign and I will vocally support the sorts of folks that people like Damore seek to condemn.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#120

Post by mav3rick » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 5:30 AM UTC

akhilcacharya wrote: post #112

mav3rick wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no idea how hard people work here. Some of the smartest and diligent people work here. It's a big company so your friends maybe doing 9 to 5. But HN will never mention all the people who put in the hard yards at Google.

People work hard at all companies, including mine. Google isn’t special, except the people there seem to work less on average from the people I know. > Some of the smartest and diligent people work here. Yikes. Y’all are not as special as you think you are.

"From the people I know " Cherry pick the 5 people you know.

99% of people will join Google on HN. So will most of Amazon. Don't kid yourself.