51–60 of 77 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Muslim Brotherhood is very much not in the driver's seat here. They're old and irrelevant, this is a moment for the young.
the Iranian revolution was also powered by 'the young', and the Mullahs were not in the drivers seat there either. Though the return of Khomeini was definitely very much the catalyst.
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I'm not sure the poster labels them as "worthy", just that they've been systematically excluded, used as puppets in sham elections, and are popular with the lower-classes.
The problem is if they can be considered to have party goals that are compatible with democratic society. If the goal of the opposition is to destruct the mechanisms by which they are to come to the power, should they be allowed to participate.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Muslim Brotherhood is very much not in the driver's seat here. They're old and irrelevant, this is a moment for the young.
the Iranian revolution was also powered by 'the young', and the Mullahs were not in the drivers seat there either. Though the return of Khomeini was definitely very much the catalyst.
Thirty years later, the situation in Egypt is different. The secular centrists and left-wing have a clear model of how to fill the vacuum. Even if they didn't before, Tunisia has provided one for them. There is little opportunity for the Muslim Brotherhood to step in as strongmen willing to make order out of chaos.
1979 Iran and 2011 Egypt are simply materially incomparable situations. There is a possibility that the MB will cause headaches for an emergent democracy, but their ability to seize control and establish a theocratic dictatorship is minuscule, at best.
I don't agree. It's not the whole population that will make the true revolution. They'll help, but are not the main stream of the revolution. Read my comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2151468 Western Media has made false rumors that this is the Facebook revolution of young people. Yeah, Facebook played a major role, but wasn't the key. There is torture in these countries. To break police torture, you…
> To break police torture, you MUST torture them. I hope you meant that in a figurative sense and not in a literal one, if you meant that literally then I'm sorry, but that's absolutely not the case. You break a bad regime by doing better, not by becoming like them. I sincerely hope that El Baradei will get his way and will be allowed to lead a transition government he seems like a decent fellow and has done a lot of…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
the Iranian revolution was also powered by 'the young', and the Mullahs were not in the drivers seat there either. Though the return of Khomeini was definitely very much the catalyst.
The Iranian left also had no blueprint for moving forward. They were able to destabilize and oust the Shah, but they didn't know how to fill the power vacuum. The mosques did. They were not a marginalized fringe political wing, they were a cultural and religious force that quickly leveraged their position to move into the political sphere. Thirty years later, the situation in Egypt is different. The secular centrists…
Ok, that's a good thing then.
Is Iran financing them? Or do they have local support?
What are the relative proportions supporting these factions in the population?
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Eh.. realpolitik is short term and almost always misses the big picture. When things change, you wind up on the wrong side, like us with Mubarak right now. Or all that Taliban and Saddam funding once upon a time. There's a balance of course.. but in a case like this, I'd elevate America the idea over America the set of short term interests, and I'm embarrassed by Biden's comments too.
Indeed. People will make you think that Realpolitik is some hard-thinking, tough-decisions geopolitical chess game. But it's not, it's just international checkers, making the least bad decision at the last minute because you haven't planned ahead. It's a shame that it has infected American foreign policy for so long. Naive idealism is no better, but pragmatic idealism is far far better, but also far more difficult.
I'm very ambivalent on this uprising. Murbarak is a brutal, evil person but the Muslim Brotherhood will be no better for the people of Egypt than he is. The Shah was a horrible person, but do you think the Ayatollah have brought peace, prosperity, and democracy to Iran? One thing a radical Egypt will do is further destabilize the region. Particularly the situation with Israel will grow very tense. I am no flag-waver…
The Muslim Brotherhood is very much not in the driver's seat here. They're old and irrelevant, this is a moment for the young.
Muhammad Mursi said the group wants Cairo to revoke the state of emergency, dissolve the People’s Assembly and hold free and fair elections, amend the constitutional articles that led to vote rigging in Egypt’s last elections, hold presidential elections according to those amendments, and fire the current government and form a national unity government responsive to the Egyptian people’s demands.
http://www.phibetaiota.net/2011/01/nightwatch-extract-egypt-...
This is where I become ashamed of my government: "“Mubarak has been an ally of ours in a number of things. And he’s been very responsible on, relative to geopolitical interest in the region, the Middle East peace efforts; the actions Egypt has taken relative to normalizing relationship with – with Israel. … I would not refer to him as a dictator.” - Joe Biden http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchannels/2011/0127/Joe-…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Muslim Brotherhood is very much not in the driver's seat here. They're old and irrelevant, this is a moment for the young.
Egypt: A spokesman for Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood announced that the group is making five urgent demands which the Egyptian government should comply with in order to avert several crises, according to a 19 January posting on the Muslim Brotherhood website. Muhammad Mursi said the group wants Cairo to revoke the state of emergency, dissolve the People’s Assembly and hold free and fair elections, amend the constitution…
The OP mentions Muslim Brotherhood as the worthy opposition, but they don't appear as anything democratic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood "The Brotherhood's stated goal is to instill the Qur'an and Sunnah as the "sole reference point for ... ordering the life of the Muslim family, individual, community ... and state""
I don't know about the Muslim Brotherhood, but very often Islamic opposition parties are favored because they are perceived as less corrupt than the existing regime. I know at least one non-Muslim who has voted for Islamic parties on the grounds that "at least they don't get rich by sucking our blood."