One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions • Hacker News Board

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#321

Post by bluntfang » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

hindsightbias wrote: post #50

seibelj wrote: post #11

How about everyone goes to work and does their job and goes home. You can believe X, I can believe Y, and both of us believe Z, but XYZ doesn’t have anything to do with doing our jobs so we shouldn’t let it prevent us from doing our jobs. Super cool that everyone likes their own things though, I support liking things unrelated to job, just weird that people demand that their job adheres to whatever weird thing they l…

I can’t imagine having the energy to think about all these things outside of my day job. These people must have an incredible amount of time on their hands. And yet, Google is still evil.

Or maybe you have some kind of debilitating disorder that needs medical/psychological attention, like dysthymia.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#322

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:17 PM UTC

JohnBooty wrote: post #289

seibelj wrote: post #11

How about everyone goes to work and does their job and goes home. You can believe X, I can believe Y, and both of us believe Z, but XYZ doesn’t have anything to do with doing our jobs so we shouldn’t let it prevent us from doing our jobs. Super cool that everyone likes their own things though, I support liking things unrelated to job, just weird that people demand that their job adheres to whatever weird thing they l…

Generally, yes, I agree. However there are a lot of beliefs that make this kind of approach unworkable. If XYZ wants to believe that the earth is flat, sure, that can just be a personal belief and won't interfere with his work duties... well, unless he is launching satellites for NASA. If XYZ is a furry and thinks anime girls in cat outfits are hot, sure, that's cool too. Also a personal belief that probably won't in…

[deleted]

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#323

Post by matthewmacleod » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:23 PM UTC

aedron wrote: post #296

say_it_as_it_is wrote: post #208

What we are seeing are the consequences of "Employee Capture". Google captured the hearts and minds of its employees for workplace productivity. Its side effects are varied. The real world only sees highlights. Googled created a bubble from which its employees can socialize without ever needing to do so with the outside world. Why talk politics with the outside world? Stay with us, where it is safe, people are intell…

With 20 years experience under my belt, it is my firm belief that the workplace is not a place to discuss politics, religion, or other highly personal and divisive issues. Obviously, this extends even more to the workplace itself bringing these topics up. I'm not aggressive or even obvious about this disposition, I just gently steer clear of violating it. I feel the same should apply to companies, fine if you want to…

The problem is, though, that politics is inherently tied up in actions related to the workplace.

Let’s say one of your colleagues or managers occasionally makes decisions that would be frowned upon by some people. Maybe you’re recruiting, and they let slip that they passed over a female candidate because they thought she might have a child soon. Or maybe they passed on a gay man because they didn’t think he should be working in a role where he’d interact with children.

This is a political act. Deciding to respond to it, or to ignore it, is also a political act. If this culture is widespread, it would seem reasonable to object to it at a company-wise level. It seems infeasible to separate politics from employment in that sense.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#324

Post by lentil_soup » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:25 PM UTC

aedron wrote: post #296

say_it_as_it_is wrote: post #208

What we are seeing are the consequences of "Employee Capture". Google captured the hearts and minds of its employees for workplace productivity. Its side effects are varied. The real world only sees highlights. Googled created a bubble from which its employees can socialize without ever needing to do so with the outside world. Why talk politics with the outside world? Stay with us, where it is safe, people are intell…

With 20 years experience under my belt, it is my firm belief that the workplace is not a place to discuss politics, religion, or other highly personal and divisive issues. Obviously, this extends even more to the workplace itself bringing these topics up. I'm not aggressive or even obvious about this disposition, I just gently steer clear of violating it. I feel the same should apply to companies, fine if you want to…

But hiding our views is just avoiding the problem. We should learn to deal with people having different opinions and still be able to collaborate professionally and not turn it into a battleground.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#325

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:25 PM UTC

leftyted wrote: post #320

DagAgren wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your colleagues are not an authentic social network who you can organise with and pursue activism. This is absolutely, 100% false. This is exactly what you SHOULD do, and this is what unions are for. Always organise with coworkers. Otherwise you are giving employers more power over you than you should.

My empoyer doesn't have a lot of power over me. I'm a programmer not a coal miner. I don't want to be in a union. I don't want to join some club. I don't want to pay dues. I don't want to read newsletters or listen to speeches or be involved at all in the grubby, underhanded manuevering for power that would come with a union. And I'm tired of people condescendingly telling me that I'm wrong for feeling this way. I'm…

[deleted]

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#326

Post by Faark » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:27 PM UTC

manfredo wrote: post #170

thundergolfer wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps in an non-standard understanding of what is and isn't political. "Politics is a set of activities associated with the governance of a country or an area. It involves making decisions that apply to group of members" - Wikipedia > An apolitical office is political in the same sense that secularism is a religious stance. This sentence doesn't make any sense as Secularism is a political concept and not a "relig…

> "Politics is a set of activities associated with the governance of a country or an area. It involves making decisions that apply to group of members" - Wikipedia And thus, an office in which this "set of activities" is not permitted is an apolitical office. > An office can never be an apolitical entity, given that it involves the organisation of people and decision making about their activities, AND that office nec…

> but also prevents those people who want to defend the status quo.

You don't have to defend the status quo, if no one is allowed to challenge it. In other words your ideal office is set in favor of the status quo. And a century ago, would likely not have hired women or blacks. Since that would have been "political".

Thing is, I'm actually in favor of this. Most companies should probably stick to avoiding politics as good as possible and give their employees freedom to do whatever they want outside of work. At the same time, "X employee does [bad thing]" headlines make this damn hard, and thus the company will have to distance itself from what such employees do... worst case by terminating the relationship.

Long story short, having a highly divided society will lead to a lot of pain. No way around it. Finding ways to work against those divisions before they get even worse, even if that means conflict, seem more important than to just bury one's head in the sand.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#327

Post by notzuck » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:28 PM UTC

baq wrote: post #236

PunchTornado wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> earlier this month, more than 1,000 employees called on the company to cancel deals with oil and gas companies. what's wrong with these employees? Keep your political opinions to yourself. So they propose that my company lose money because of your activism. Don't agree! What if some employees asked that Google cancel any deals with climate change NGOs? How would these employees feel about it?

homo sapiens is a political animal and you can't just pretend (or expect) that for 8 hours in day it isn't true. you couldn't expect that from slaves so why would you expect that from employees?

Spotted the irritating person to work with.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#328

Post by rhodysurf » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:29 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #323

aedron wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With 20 years experience under my belt, it is my firm belief that the workplace is not a place to discuss politics, religion, or other highly personal and divisive issues. Obviously, this extends even more to the workplace itself bringing these topics up. I'm not aggressive or even obvious about this disposition, I just gently steer clear of violating it. I feel the same should apply to companies, fine if you want to…

The problem is, though, that politics is inherently tied up in actions related to the workplace. Let’s say one of your colleagues or managers occasionally makes decisions that would be frowned upon by some people. Maybe you’re recruiting, and they let slip that they passed over a female candidate because they thought she might have a child soon. Or maybe they passed on a gay man because they didn’t think he should be…

Those examples are not really political, but they are illegal.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#329

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:30 PM UTC

leftyted wrote: post #320

DagAgren wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your colleagues are not an authentic social network who you can organise with and pursue activism. This is absolutely, 100% false. This is exactly what you SHOULD do, and this is what unions are for. Always organise with coworkers. Otherwise you are giving employers more power over you than you should.

My empoyer doesn't have a lot of power over me. I'm a programmer not a coal miner. I don't want to be in a union. I don't want to join some club. I don't want to pay dues. I don't want to read newsletters or listen to speeches or be involved at all in the grubby, underhanded manuevering for power that would come with a union. And I'm tired of people condescendingly telling me that I'm wrong for feeling this way. I'm…

[deleted]

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#330

Post by ddevault » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 2:32 PM UTC

leftyted wrote: post #320

DagAgren wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your colleagues are not an authentic social network who you can organise with and pursue activism. This is absolutely, 100% false. This is exactly what you SHOULD do, and this is what unions are for. Always organise with coworkers. Otherwise you are giving employers more power over you than you should.

My empoyer doesn't have a lot of power over me. I'm a programmer not a coal miner. I don't want to be in a union. I don't want to join some club. I don't want to pay dues. I don't want to read newsletters or listen to speeches or be involved at all in the grubby, underhanded manuevering for power that would come with a union. And I'm tired of people condescendingly telling me that I'm wrong for feeling this way. I'm…

What if your punch in, put on the blinders, work 8 hours, punch out, go home; emotionally-deatched approach has you building tools to enable censorship in China? Or what if you end up working on [insert your personal morally objectionable issue of choice]?

Your employer doesn't have power over you, but you have power over them. Organization is about choosing not to exercise that power by leaving for greener pastures and letting the company rinse and repeat with the next cycle of college graduates, but by staying and choosing to influence the direction of the company in a positive way. You can choose to do your 8 hours every day and devote a full one-third of your life - the only life you get - to someone else's work that you don't have a stake in. But that just seems like the stupid, easy way out.