One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions • Hacker News Board

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#191

Post by mike00632 » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 9:15 AM UTC

9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #169

gwbas1c wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps put you biases aside? There are white supremacists who don't think they're racist. (It's kind of like someone claiming they aren't homophobic but also opposing gay marriage.) It's a complicated subject. IMO, I don't see how someone can be a racist / homophobe in secret; thus I don't see a justification for spying on a co-worker just to find out things like this.

Are the world famous #1 gay couple Dolce and Gabbana homophobic? They oppose gay marriage, but in your American culture there are only two ways of life, you pick Republicans or Democrats and run with whatever their ministries of truth spew out.

Try to elaborate on why they are against gays marrying without the reasoning sounding homophobic.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#192

Post by nabla9 » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 9:16 AM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #11

How about everyone goes to work and does their job and goes home. You can believe X, I can believe Y, and both of us believe Z, but XYZ doesn’t have anything to do with doing our jobs so we shouldn’t let it prevent us from doing our jobs. Super cool that everyone likes their own things though, I support liking things unrelated to job, just weird that people demand that their job adheres to whatever weird thing they l…

How about exact opposite of what you propose?

People go to work in big important companies like Google so that they can have more political influence. If you are techie interested in influencing future and politics, working inside tech companies might be a new avenue to influence the world. You believe X and you go to Google to push that X.

I don't know if this is effective way to influence. I'm just responding to the tone of your suggestion "people should know their place and use proper channels".

As corporations are increasingly using political power and influencing governments and the society why should workers keep politics outside workplace?

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#193

Post by mike00632 » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 9:17 AM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #126

RangerScience wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, there is an available objective definition of "tolerate": as a peace treaty. You are tolerated as long as you tolerate. If you don't (as in, say, the case of the KKK), well, by non-participation in the "treaty", you no longer have to be tolerated by anyone adhering to it. OFC, this doesn't work in all circumstances, but, perhaps, it should be applied in all circumstances in which it _could_.

> you no longer have to be tolerated by anyone adhering to it. The point of tolerance is to tolerate . Just because you have managed to find an intolerant viewpoint that survives our current memetic filter, does not change the reality that you're the one preaching intolerance, right here . Hate movements throughout history have been supported by logical-sounding arguments for marginalizing some outgroup. I don't thin…

Being intolerant of intolerance is the only way to foster a tolerant society. It's the solution to the Paradox of Tolerance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#194

Post by lucifirius » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 9:21 AM UTC

Iv wrote: post #144

kjgkjhfkjf wrote: post #43

Although it's generally quite hard to get fired from Google, leakers have always been dealt with severely. Google once upon a time fired a member of the original Macintosh team for leaking information about the Christmas bonus. My guess is that the increased closing off of various documents is to do with the increased amount of confidential partner-related information as Google scales its cloud business. But, as is o…

> unrealistic expectations Basically thinking "Don't do evil" and being a profitable competitive corporation are compatible.

It's entirely possible to be a profitable competitive corporation and not do evil.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#195

Post by lucifirius » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 9:24 AM UTC

mike00632 wrote: post #190

cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But what if your coworker likes attending KKK rallies and you're African-American? Or your co-worker is out there on the weekend holding signs that say "Death to Gays" and you just happen to be gay? Yes yes, we can all dream up the very worst case scenario and other outliers. As someone else pointed out, companies generally have contract clauses that even govern social media whereby if you represent the company poor…

You know, in most parts of the world and in many parts of the United States, being accepting to gay people is the outlier. See TikTok's banning LGBT content and Facebook's banning HIV drug awareness ads.

>See TikTok's banning LGBT content

China owns TikTok

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#196

Post by lucifirius » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 9:25 AM UTC

mike00632 wrote: post #193

mindslight wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you no longer have to be tolerated by anyone adhering to it. The point of tolerance is to tolerate . Just because you have managed to find an intolerant viewpoint that survives our current memetic filter, does not change the reality that you're the one preaching intolerance, right here . Hate movements throughout history have been supported by logical-sounding arguments for marginalizing some outgroup. I don't thin…

Being intolerant of intolerance is the only way to foster a tolerant society. It's the solution to the Paradox of Tolerance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Linking a wikipedia article isn't an argument

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#197

Post by lucifirius » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 9:26 AM UTC

firethief wrote: post #152

big_chungus wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're not comfortable doing that project, ask to be re-assigned; most good managers will make that accommodation for an excellent employee. If you're not comfortable working at a company that does that, don't work there. On the other hand, I have no issue working on a military project; your actions could cost me a job if the project gets cancelled. Don't force your views on others; let me keep showing up and doin…

> Don't force your views on others; let me keep showing up and doing my job. I shouldn't end up un-employed because of your personal ethical issues. This perspective is antithetical to democracy.

Tyranny of the majority

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#198

Post by josefx » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 9:30 AM UTC

chance_state wrote: post #10

>In the past, one of the employees said, employees could review internal documents for virtually any project underway within the company. In recent years, however, more projects have become closed off and accessible only to smaller groups on a “need-to-know” basis, the employee said. >Earlier this year, following a series of leaks to the media, Google executives tightened their grip. They shut down thousands of contr…

> Can someone explain what the controversy is here?

Google had some rather controversial projects that officially got shutdown over employees being rightfully concerned. An example would be the highly censored Chinese dragonfly search engine. Google clamping down on project information on a "need to know" basis could be seen as rather problematic when you consider that management considers that kind of project acceptable.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#199

Post by koheripbal » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 9:32 AM UTC

chongli wrote: post #79

robbya wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Installing an extension to monitor employee use of a company computer is legal and generally accepted behavior. If the Google calendar is for a personal gmail account, then accessing the calendar details server side is a huge privacy breach.

It’s not legal if employers specifically use it to disrupt employees’ attempts to organize. The NLRA specifically grants employees the right to organize and it prohibits employers from monitoring these organizing employees. The fact that Google employees, in this case, may not be considering forming a union at this time is irrelevant. The meetings they are having may prompt them to form one at a later time. Either wa…

The disruption of those meetings is illegal, not the monitoring of their organization.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#200

Post by tanilama » Wed, Nov 13, 2019, 9:42 AM UTC

ahelwer wrote: post #13

xhkkffbf wrote: post #3

I've liked many things about Google over the years and I still admire many parts of their stack. But this crazy internal political culture is bound to end in a big kaboom and it looks like this might be it. Evolution has created the rules that one doesn't mix politics with business. Google has skirted this rule for some time but now it's not going to be pretty.

> Evolution has created the rules that one doesn't mix politics with business This 'rule' is a purely artificial construct encouraged to ensure the common employees keep their heads down and let those in charge continue screwing over them and/or society. The history of organized labor involves no less than straight murder of labor activists by company owners.

The employee disrupt Google itself, not the society.

History is history. Comparing Google to murderers are just false. They are not. In fact Google got where it is today, is mainly due to the fact they previously intentionally obfuscated the ownership between management/employees. Apparently, it no longer works for it now. Time to move on. Learn to act like MSFT/IBM or maybe even Amazon.