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One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

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Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#161
post #3

I've liked many things about Google over the years and I still admire many parts of their stack. But this crazy internal political culture is bound to end in a big kaboom and it looks like this might be it. Evolution has created the rules that one doesn't mix politics with business. Google has skirted this rule for some time but now it's not going to be pretty.

> Evolution has created the rules that one doesn't mix politics with business.

"Evolution has"? Are you invoking evo-psych to say politics and business don't mix.

It's really quite amazing how the dominant corporate ideology has become so invisible that people think that by going to work and doing whatever your boss says to do is somehow devoid of political involvement.

Pretending "business" has nothing to do with politics is absurd. You can only believe it if you think corporate capitalism is apolitical.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#162
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fighting against the creation of a union is just as a political act as trying to create one (as an example). Saying "oh we should keep the office apolitical by not having a union" is a political act. Saying "oh we shouldn't complain about the kind of customers our emplyoer has" is a political act. Acting in opposition to political acts is in itself a political act. The apolitical thing to do would be to _not interven…

Perhaps in an non-standard understanding of what is and isn't political. An apolitical office is political in the same sense that secularism is a religious stance. It's not catering to any specific religion: it is equally exclusive of all religions. Similarly, an apolitical office doesn't prevent or directly influence the political activity of workers - it just relegates that political activity to spaces outside the…

This post was like watching a fish vigorously deny the existence of water.

Look, functionally you're defining an "apolitical" office as unquestioning obedience. Which is fine, just own it instead of trying to dress it up.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#163
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fighting against the creation of a union is just as a political act as trying to create one (as an example). Saying "oh we should keep the office apolitical by not having a union" is a political act. Saying "oh we shouldn't complain about the kind of customers our emplyoer has" is a political act. Acting in opposition to political acts is in itself a political act. The apolitical thing to do would be to _not interven…

Perhaps in an non-standard understanding of what is and isn't political. An apolitical office is political in the same sense that secularism is a religious stance. It's not catering to any specific religion: it is equally exclusive of all religions. Similarly, an apolitical office doesn't prevent or directly influence the political activity of workers - it just relegates that political activity to spaces outside the…

> Perhaps in an non-standard understanding of what is and isn't political.

"Politics is a set of activities associated with the governance of a country or an area. It involves making decisions that apply to group of members" - Wikipedia

> An apolitical office is political in the same sense that secularism is a religious stance.

This sentence doesn't make any sense as Secularism is a political concept and not a "religious stance".

An office can never be an apolitical entity, given that it involves the organisation of people and decision making about their activities, AND that office necessarily interacts with wider society which is unavoidably a political area.

When you think about it, it's really quite baffling that people can think they can spend almost 30% of their waking life within some system that is devoid of political relevance. Life is political. Society is political. What you do in your work and career is one of the most politically impactful parts of a persons life.

To be generous, treating the workplace as devoid of politics is just support of the status-quo.

Not sure whether I should belabour this point...

> Yes, the apolitical thing is to not intervene in others' political process.

Given that many people are socialists and want to live in a society where say, Education, is a public good and managed by public institutions, then simply maintaining private educational institutions is intervening in the "political process" of others.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#164

After what happened to Damore I am happy to hear that Google’s “activism” culture is finally getting pushback because they became bold enough to attack the company’s financial interests.

Executes realized that the "mob" is coming after them, not only their business, but after them on a personal stand point, and they would be right, so they are attempting to crackdown on it before a full on rebellion.

It was "OK" when activism was directed at the competition or randos on social media or GitHub or "conservatives", and they encouraged it, not realizing these activists were extremists or had ties to ideologues.

But one can be certain "Google 2020" will look more like "IBM 2010" than "Google 2010".

This will be US election year soon, it's going to get nasty on all fronts.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#165
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like it was a "safety hazard" to have too many people at once in the smoking area behind the textile mill. It is a slippery slope to try to tease apart what is, and what isn't, interference right? Google also has a clause in their employment agreement that says you agree to them putting surveillance software on your devices, company supplied and personal, as a condition of your employment. I asked about that one, got…

> Google also has a clause in their employment agreement that says you agree to them putting surveillance software on your devices, company supplied and personal, as a condition of your employment. How would Google even know about your personal devices? That seems to only make sense if you intend to use your personal device for work.

I don't think the reply is about BYOD... There is speculation about IMSI catchers being used to target personal cell phones without any BYOD app installed.

Didn't a whistleblower at a car company suggest this...

https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/13/18263757/tesla-elon-musk-...

And if such a a company had that technology then we can only speculate its use is more widespread than imagined.

Maybe this is the only reason remote jobs are not available at these companies... Nothing to do with being onsite just more of a precaution to vet employees before even allowing them to be remote.

So if a company could capture your personal text messages and personal cell phone calls while within an office campus (and no BYOD app installed)... would they use that knowledge to prevent poaching as well?

Be careful.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#166
post #3

I've liked many things about Google over the years and I still admire many parts of their stack. But this crazy internal political culture is bound to end in a big kaboom and it looks like this might be it. Evolution has created the rules that one doesn't mix politics with business. Google has skirted this rule for some time but now it's not going to be pretty.

> Evolution has created the rules that one doesn't mix politics with business.

You mean, the power of the ruling class has created the rules that ruled class doesn't mix challenging their masters in with their service that is required for their survival.

Because politics and business are deeply mixed when you look at the ruling (capitalist) class, your “evolution” rule doesn't apply there. And politics that involve bootlicking for their particular masters is also rewarded in the working class, your “evolution” rule.dorsnt apply there, either. It's only politics that challenges one’s capitalist masters (usually embodied in a corporate employer) that is discouraged.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#167
post #5

"The tracking had made the staff of those departments feel unsafe, the spokeswoman said." ...said the largest worldwide private spy agency the world has ever known.

"unsafe" is clearly hyperbolic here, their physical safety isn't threatened. Their "safe place" AKA ideologic echo chamber? Sure.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#168
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this does is ensure only mediocre people are hired. What you described is how you might hire for McDonald’s, not a high growth company that is building something massive/valuable. I work with a group of the most talented people in the world at what they do and 0 of them would want to work in an environment you describe. In fact they won’t even consider a company remotely like what you describe.

Doesn’t matter. We turn mediocre generalists into skilled specialists with niche knowledge of different domains within a year. And because the things we teach them don’t have much application outside the company they are very loyal. Talented people with social activism fantasies are overrated. They can’t always be trusted to simply do what you tell them. They think their talents give them leverage, and that if they s…

So from what you've said, your company teaches their employees to be worthless in the job marketplace, thus having lower earning potential.

But also your firm engages in practices that could be viewed as morally dubious that HR activily screens out people that might have any kind of social media presence. Which sounds like a fear of whistleblowers more than anything.

"They can’t always be trusted to simply do what you tell them."

Such a telling phrase.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, there is an available objective definition of "tolerate": as a peace treaty. You are tolerated as long as you tolerate. If you don't (as in, say, the case of the KKK), well, by non-participation in the "treaty", you no longer have to be tolerated by anyone adhering to it. OFC, this doesn't work in all circumstances, but, perhaps, it should be applied in all circumstances in which it _could_.

Perhaps put you biases aside? There are white supremacists who don't think they're racist. (It's kind of like someone claiming they aren't homophobic but also opposing gay marriage.) It's a complicated subject. IMO, I don't see how someone can be a racist / homophobe in secret; thus I don't see a justification for spying on a co-worker just to find out things like this.

Are the world famous #1 gay couple Dolce and Gabbana homophobic? They oppose gay marriage, but in your American culture there are only two ways of life, you pick Republicans or Democrats and run with whatever their ministries of truth spew out.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps in an non-standard understanding of what is and isn't political. An apolitical office is political in the same sense that secularism is a religious stance. It's not catering to any specific religion: it is equally exclusive of all religions. Similarly, an apolitical office doesn't prevent or directly influence the political activity of workers - it just relegates that political activity to spaces outside the…

> Perhaps in an non-standard understanding of what is and isn't political. "Politics is a set of activities associated with the governance of a country or an area. It involves making decisions that apply to group of members" - Wikipedia > An apolitical office is political in the same sense that secularism is a religious stance. This sentence doesn't make any sense as Secularism is a political concept and not a "relig…

> "Politics is a set of activities associated with the governance of a country or an area. It involves making decisions that apply to group of members" - Wikipedia

And thus, an office in which this "set of activities" is not permitted is an apolitical office.

> An office can never be an apolitical entity, given that it involves the organisation of people and decision making about their activities, AND that office necessarily interacts with wider society which is unavoidably a political area.

I think you're failing to distinguish between an apolitical office, and the company being an "apolitical entity". A company of any significant size is going to end up interacting with politicians. But this does not mean that its offices cannot be apolitical spaces. I do not know why you seem to insist that this is the case. All that is necessary for an office to be an apolitical space is to make political activity off limits in the office.

> When you think about it, it's really quite baffling that people can think they can spend almost 30% of their waking life within some system that is devoid of political relevance. Life is political. Society is political. What you do in your work and career is one of the most politically impactful parts of a persons life.

Life and society are indeed political. Sure, some people may want to bring politics into the 30% of their lives that they spend in the office. But plenty of other people are happier when a company has employees use the 70% that is spent outside of the office.

> To be generous, treating the workplace as devoid of politics is just support of the status-quo.

For the fourth time, absence of a political view is not the support of any view. This is a toxic "you're with us or you're against us" mentality and it's exactly this kind of thing that people are sick of hearing from their co-workers.

> Given that many people are socialists and want to live in a society where say, Education, is a public good and managed by public institutions, then simply maintaining private educational institutions is intervening in the "political process" of others.

And in an apolitical office they are free to organize activism to push politicians towards achieving those ends - during the 70% of the time they spend outside of work.

Maintaining an apolitical office is not an endorsement of the status quo or any other viewpoint. It prevents people who want to change the status quo from bringing their politics into the office, but also prevents those people who want to defend the status quo. The only thing is does is it makes people carry out their political activity in a space other than the office.

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