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One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

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Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#141

Post by oh_sigh »

glitcher wrote: post #35
seibelj wrote: post #11

How about everyone goes to work and does their job and goes home. You can believe X, I can believe Y, and both of us believe Z, but XYZ doesn’t have anything to do with doing our jobs so we shouldn’t let it prevent us from doing our jobs. Super cool that everyone likes their own things though, I support liking things unrelated to job, just weird that people demand that their job adheres to whatever weird thing they l…

> just weird that people demand that their job adheres to whatever weird thing they like What about "weird" things like not being comfortable with taking on a new project with the military that ultimately helps kill people, or amassing as much personal data on the entire population as the NSA? I mostly agree with your sentiment on the surface. Dont talk politics or religion at work, do your job, and things usually go…

Speaking to the complexities of life, it seems simplistic to say helping the military do anything helps them kill people.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#142

Post by goatinaboat »

skissane wrote: post #28

> The documents concerned a mandatory tool that was recently installed on the Google Chrome browser on workers’ computers, the employees said. In October, some Google employees raised concerns that the Chrome extension was an internal surveillance tool designed to monitor their attempts to organize protests. It would automatically report staffers who create a calendar event with more than 10 rooms or 100 participants…

Why create a Chrome extension to monitor usage of Google Calendar?

Obviously for the “chilling effect”. Really rubbing it in the employee’s faces that they’re being surveilled.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#143

Post by Iv »

robbya wrote: post #48
skissane wrote: post #28

> The documents concerned a mandatory tool that was recently installed on the Google Chrome browser on workers’ computers, the employees said. In October, some Google employees raised concerns that the Chrome extension was an internal surveillance tool designed to monitor their attempts to organize protests. It would automatically report staffers who create a calendar event with more than 10 rooms or 100 participants…

Installing an extension to monitor employee use of a company computer is legal and generally accepted behavior. If the Google calendar is for a personal gmail account, then accessing the calendar details server side is a huge privacy breach.

Not in all countries.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#144

Post by Iv »

kjgkjhfkjf wrote: post #43

Although it's generally quite hard to get fired from Google, leakers have always been dealt with severely. Google once upon a time fired a member of the original Macintosh team for leaking information about the Christmas bonus. My guess is that the increased closing off of various documents is to do with the increased amount of confidential partner-related information as Google scales its cloud business. But, as is o…

> unrealistic expectations

Basically thinking "Don't do evil" and being a profitable competitive corporation are compatible.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#145

Post by jcrites »

defen wrote: post #130
ChuckMcM wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like it was a "safety hazard" to have too many people at once in the smoking area behind the textile mill. It is a slippery slope to try to tease apart what is, and what isn't, interference right? Google also has a clause in their employment agreement that says you agree to them putting surveillance software on your devices, company supplied and personal, as a condition of your employment. I asked about that one, got…

> Google also has a clause in their employment agreement that says you agree to them putting surveillance software on your devices, company supplied and personal, as a condition of your employment. How would Google even know about your personal devices? That seems to only make sense if you intend to use your personal device for work.

The Google policy probably applies to personal devices used in BYOD work settings.

Lots of people at tech companies use personal devices for work. This includes things like having your work calendar, email, or corporate applications on your personal phone. In my company's case there is some kind of enterprise iOS policy that gets installed as part of onboarding a device to access company systems. This has the ability to enforce a password policy, monitor installed software and software versions, to lock out devices that are running known vulnerable apps or iOS versions, as well as the technical ability to remotely wipe the entire device (never heard of that being exercised). Company data resides on the device (via email, documents, and other means) so it's reasonable for them to want to have some oversight. An attacker could attempt to get into company systems via the device, after all, since it has (some limited) access to my corporate account.

I use my personal phone for work because it's extremely handy to have work email and calendar on my phone, and I don't want to carry two phones.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#146

Post by xwdv »

askafriend wrote: post #137
xwdv wrote: post #29

At our company if the HR goes through your social media, and finds any evidence you may be socially activist or virtue signaling or otherwise very loudly proclaiming your disapproval of something some entity is doing, you will not be hired. You will not even get a call back. You will be labeled as a potential troublemaker (not in the good way) and be placed on the blacklist.

All this does is ensure only mediocre people are hired. What you described is how you might hire for McDonald’s, not a high growth company that is building something massive/valuable. I work with a group of the most talented people in the world at what they do and 0 of them would want to work in an environment you describe. In fact they won’t even consider a company remotely like what you describe.

Doesn’t matter. We turn mediocre generalists into skilled specialists with niche knowledge of different domains within a year. And because the things we teach them don’t have much application outside the company they are very loyal.

Talented people with social activism fantasies are overrated. They can’t always be trusted to simply do what you tell them. They think their talents give them leverage, and that if they see anything they deem improper, they have a responsibility to resist it.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#147

Post by s1artibartfast »

manfredo wrote: post #113
mason55 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can believe X, I can believe Y, and both of us believe Z, but XYZ doesn’t have anything to do with doing our jobs so we shouldn’t let it prevent us from doing our jobs. It's easy to say this if your coworker likes football and you think sports are dumb. But what if your coworker likes attending KKK rallies and you're African-American? Or your co-worker is out there on the weekend holding signs that say "Death t…

Do you genuinely believe that the cultural issues at Google are about employees announcing their support for the Klu Klux Klan, or calling for the deaths of gays? Do you think this kind of rhetoric is productive?

Not op, but I do think that many employees at my company dont distinguish between between republicans and kkk homophobes.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#148

Post by hos234 »

seibelj wrote: post #11

How about everyone goes to work and does their job and goes home. You can believe X, I can believe Y, and both of us believe Z, but XYZ doesn’t have anything to do with doing our jobs so we shouldn’t let it prevent us from doing our jobs. Super cool that everyone likes their own things though, I support liking things unrelated to job, just weird that people demand that their job adheres to whatever weird thing they l…

There is nothing weird or abnormal about people pushing their own agenda. Its normal and happens all the time. You won't find a manager who hasn't experienced it.

The new dimension these days is how many people you can rally to your cause and how fast you can do it. Social media and news media amplification gives anyone that power. It can be used and misused and managers are learning how to deal. It's all new so expect good and bad outcomes.

But don't expect people to stop pushing their agendas.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#149

Post by nearbuy »

thephyber wrote: post #70
seibelj wrote: post #11

How about everyone goes to work and does their job and goes home. You can believe X, I can believe Y, and both of us believe Z, but XYZ doesn’t have anything to do with doing our jobs so we shouldn’t let it prevent us from doing our jobs. Super cool that everyone likes their own things though, I support liking things unrelated to job, just weird that people demand that their job adheres to whatever weird thing they l…

> just weird that people demand that their job adheres to whatever weird thing they like. This was literally a selling point at Google: > Larry Page and Sergey Brin ... had designed their company's famously open culture to facilitate free thinking. Employees were “obligated to dissent” if they saw something they disagreed with, and they were encouraged to “bring their whole selves” to work rather than check their pol…

> Larry Page and Sergey Brin ... had designed their company's famously open culture to facilitate free thinking. Employees were “obligated to dissent” if they saw something they disagreed with, and they were encouraged to “bring their whole selves” to work rather than check their politics and personal lives at the door.

Seems like James Damore took their advice.

Re: One Google Staffer Fired, Two Others Put on Leave Amid Tensions

#150

Post by rtpg »

manfredo wrote: post #114
ahelwer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Evolution has created the rules that one doesn't mix politics with business This 'rule' is a purely artificial construct encouraged to ensure the common employees keep their heads down and let those in charge continue screwing over them and/or society. The history of organized labor involves no less than straight murder of labor activists by company owners.

Yeah, no. I broadly agree with the what many activists at tech companies are supporting, but think that its deliberate attempts to make the workplace more political are unproductive or backfiring. When it gets to the point that a significant percentage of employees are feigning or exaggerating support for political positions to fit in, you have a problem. And the tech companies I've worked at in the SF Bay Area for t…

fighting against the creation of a union is just as a political act as trying to create one (as an example).

Saying "oh we should keep the office apolitical by not having a union" is a political act. Saying "oh we shouldn't complain about the kind of customers our emplyoer has" is a political act.

Acting in opposition to political acts is in itself a political act. The apolitical thing to do would be to _not intervene in others' political processes_. If mgmt let its employees organize labor actions with the same willingness as a movie night, then they would be acting apolitically.

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