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GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

latimes.com

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Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#401

Post by DoofusOfDeath »

malvosenior wrote: post #267
pjc50 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? Smart people can figure out that they can be made "illegal" by the stroke of a pen, even if they've complied with every rule they've encountered so far.

It's not actually that easy to revoke someone's citizenship. I know many people who came to the US legally that are vehemently opposed to illegal immigration precisely because they followed the rules and don't see why others shouldn't have to.

This touches on my greatest frustration with the national debate about prosecution/tolerance of illegal immigration:

One of my main reasons for opposing illegal immigration is that it's contrary to the rule of law. It subverts the democratic process, and makes suckers of anybody who does try to follow these laws. I'm actually a big fan of legal immigration.

But I rarely (never?) hear this distinction made in public statements by advocates of illegal immigration. At least in public, they seem to assume that anybody who opposes illegal immigration opposes all immigration, and even worse, does so out of ignorance or bigotry.

Assuming I'm not the only person with my particular views, that conflation is infuriating. I can only hope it's done unwittingly.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#402

Post by commandlinefan »

smudgymcscmudge wrote: post #336
duxup wrote: post #19

I'd like to get a feel about what volume of employees have an issue with these things. From issue to issue I hear about various forms of employees making themselves heard but it is REALLY hard to jive with what that means. We've seen Google employees post about some ideas that seemed to be genuinely popular (measure that how you will...) but later ideas or advocacy were reportedly far less supported by the general em…

About a quarter of the company has signed the protest letter. I signed the letter just so people would stop nagging me to sign. I don’t care about ICE. I suspect there are others who got pressured into signing.

I wonder about that, too - how far will the rabble-rousers go, if they can get away with it? Will they insist on the firing of the people who _didn’t_ sign the petition? Will they blacklist people who have ever worked with ICE in the future? Will this spread beyond github? Will we have an unelected, unaccountable group of “the woke” dictating the terms of our employment?

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#403

Post by p1necone »

tomschlick wrote: post #398
KyeRussell wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

K.

Glad to see reasonable discussion is still alive and well on HN. /s

The current US government is blatantly and overtly criminal, it seems reasonable to me to assume anyone arguing in their favor is arguing in bad faith and disengage.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#404

Post by hnruss »

tomp wrote: post #324
hnruss wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you pay taxes, you "support" the entire government. That doesn't mean that you are in favor of all of the things that it is doing. If you pay taxes, you are a citizen, not a "customer". These things are not the same.

Couldn't you say the same about ICE? You support their main function, protecting the border, but aren't in favor in all of the things they're doing in order to achieve that goal.

Yes, that's my point.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#405

Post by semiotagonal »

supernova87a wrote: post #348

I question how much an employee should concern him/herself with how a product is used once it's created. You have to let certain control go after a point. Or if your product is open to everyone, you'll have to live with the fact that people may use it in ways you disagree with. Xerox or Canon (or whoever) probably makes copiers that ICE uses to make copies. Lenovo or Apple probably makes hardware that they use also t…

> You have to let certain control go after a point.

Why? If it's within your power to prevent your work from being put to use in service of something you find immoral, why not attempt to organize with like-minded workers and put a stop to it?

If you can force your company to make a choice between a contract and its workforce, you can achieve your goal. There's no reason to let things go.

> Why do Github employees get a special right to withhold consent for their product to be used in a setting they might object to?

Because they have, or may have, the power to do so. If they can take control of their work, there's no reason not to do so.

EDITED TO ADD:

> Why don't the employees at all these other companies object like Github employees?

They either don't object, or don't have the power within the company to object effectively.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#406

Post by netsharc »

zaroth wrote: post #386
smudgymcscmudge wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About a quarter of the company has signed the protest letter. I signed the letter just so people would stop nagging me to sign. I don’t care about ICE. I suspect there are others who got pressured into signing.

That’s amazing to me. It seems to me like creating a hostile work environment and a form of harassment, although political rallying is not a protected category, and the employer is likely hamstrung in making any sort of response.

OP doesn't care, I'm guessing he's not supportive of ICE and their abuse of minors (caging toddlers away from their parents is abuse, I hope we can all agree).

If a MAGA "fuck the immigrants they deserve it" works there, I guess they would feel quite harassed. Is it protected political view? I can't imagine "I'm okay with toddlers suffering psychological damage and death from some thugs in federal uniforms" can be classified as a political viewpoint.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#407

Post by sneak »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #323
sneak wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made no such agreement with the government. You are manufacturing consent where none exists. The sole reason I pay is because of the threat of force, the promise of a gun to my head if I do not. There is no consent.

Who will put a gun to your head if you stop working in the US?

Local cops via MLAT wherever I am working, as I owe US taxes regardless of where I earn money, a fun misfortune based on my location of birth.

Failing that, local cops, when I am working nowhere and have to resort to stealing food to survive.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#409

Post by chillwaves »

tomschlick wrote: post #355
supernova87a wrote: post #348

I question how much an employee should concern him/herself with how a product is used once it's created. You have to let certain control go after a point. Or if your product is open to everyone, you'll have to live with the fact that people may use it in ways you disagree with. Xerox or Canon (or whoever) probably makes copiers that ICE uses to make copies. Lenovo or Apple probably makes hardware that they use also t…

> Why don't the employees at all these other companies object like Github employees? Why do Github employees get a special right to withhold consent for their product to be used in a setting they might object to? Why is ICE the only company that they object to? Why do some causes get their favor and not others? Wokeness and the recent trend of trying to cancel anything that doesn't align within a narrow spectrum of p…

You are defending literal slave labor.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/17/us/immigrant-detention-forced...

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#410

Post by umeshunni »

supernova87a wrote: post #348

I question how much an employee should concern him/herself with how a product is used once it's created. You have to let certain control go after a point. Or if your product is open to everyone, you'll have to live with the fact that people may use it in ways you disagree with. Xerox or Canon (or whoever) probably makes copiers that ICE uses to make copies. Lenovo or Apple probably makes hardware that they use also t…

> Why don't the employees at all these other companies object like Github employees

Because those companies aren't based in the woke-wasteland of San Francisco bay area.

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