GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract • Hacker News Board

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#241

Post by mattsfrey » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 10:12 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #144

mattsfrey wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is outrageous because in both instances we're talking about actual legal citizens being persecuted by their own government for belonging to an ethnic group, not a group of foreign nationals that illegally entered the country and are being held temporarily for criminal prosecution.

That's irrelevant. The root cause of running a concentration camp is unimportant; they're human beings and deserve to be treated with dignity. As it stands, the US is failing to hold them to the standards we hold even incarcerated prisoners, and they haven't been convicted of any crime. That's outrageous. Treating some humans under one's jurisdiction as more "human" because they are citizens is a severe anti-pattern.

If the conditions of imprisonment are all that matter then the Japanese internment wasn't that big of a deal, they were treated quite well and humanely and in relatively good living conditions. But of course that's not the point. The point is a group of people were persecuted arbitrarily by their government for belonging to an ethnic group, something held today as universally reprehensible. You are using loaded language to capitalize on this connection and that is what's outrageous. That is _the_ reason you are using this term "concentration camp", and it just makes you look ridiculous to anyone that is still applying logic to the situation and not just engaging in hyperbole to make an emotional appeal.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#242

Post by undersuit » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 10:13 PM UTC

mehrdadn wrote: post #222

undersuit wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Names are important. I'll give you that.

I didn't realize solving the problem was as easy as renaming ICE back to INS.

I'm open to multiple ideas. Your idea of renaming seems to be useful for part of the process of rehabilitating ICE or whatever we're going to call it in the future.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebranding#Elimination_of_a_ne...

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#243

Post by ryanbrunner » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 10:13 PM UTC

SolarNet wrote: post #210

fiter wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The maturity could be the ability to compartmentalize. Whether that's a good thing is up for debate. Should we keep religion out of politics? Should we keep politics out of work? I doubt there are any clear answers.

> Should we keep religion out of politics? Should we keep politics out of work? I doubt there are any clear answers. Sure we should probably keep politics out of work. Human rights abuses are not politics though. We can disagree on corporate regulation, taxes, transportation policy, zoning laws, bike lanes whatever. Hell we can disagree on gun control, abortion, climate change, whether the earth is flat or round. But…

> Human rights abuses are not politics though.

They absolutely are political. The entire concept of human rights is political. There's a widespread consensus in many, many countries that they are worth protecting, but there's nothing magical or special about human rights that gives them any power beyond any other political decision.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#244

Post by mattlondon » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 10:13 PM UTC

noelsusman wrote: post #183

ratsmack wrote: post #2

It seems that these kinds of demands are becoming more common. Is it because conflict resolution is becoming a dying art, is it because people don't rise to the level of maturity of past times? I just find it to be confusing. Non PW link: https://archive.ph/IkYQ3

One man's maturity of past times is another man's unwillingness to confront injustice in society. But on a broader note, I think a lot of it can be traced to the current president. He seems to go out of his way to do things that stir up deep anger in his opponents. There's a reason why millions of people hit the streets the day after his inauguration to register their dissatisfaction with the fact that he's president…

> I think a lot of it can be traced to the current president.

It is happening outside of America too, so I don't think it is entirely due to domestic politics.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#245

Post by house9-2 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 10:13 PM UTC

vinay427 wrote: post #232

sneak wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No person is illegal.

I think it's fairly clear the commenter meant that they're "illegal immigrants," which approriately describes people that immigrated illegally. While the abbreviated colloquial form may not be strictly accurate on its own, it's quite reasonable to assume the full form given the context.

> I think it's fairly clear the commenter meant that they're "illegal immigrants,"

Do you describe African Americans using the 'N' word? hopefully not.

Would I know what you meant if you did, yes... but I would have a real hard time respecting you.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#246

Post by hinkley » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 10:17 PM UTC

paulddraper wrote: post #238

ken wrote: post #235

> The results of GitHub’s quarterly anonymous employee survey — which showed a decline in trust of leadership ... In 100% of cases where I've known a small company that got bought by a much bigger company, this has occurred. It's amazing anyone still believes that their small company can get bought and somehow they'll be able to preserve (what they think is) their "company culture".

> It's amazing anyone still believes Has anyone ever believed that?

Management implies, the old owners imply this, and some large fraction of the rank and file employees buy this.

When the rank and file realize there is no lottery ticket for them, or that they are the lottery ticket, then there's a lot of burnout.

And yes, I am fun in interviews. :)

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#247

Post by sneak » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 10:17 PM UTC

undersuit wrote: post #231

sneak wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes are not voluntary. I pay taxes for the sole reason that I do not support armed men coming to my house to jail me for not paying taxes. They are paid under duress. I do not consent.

No. You entered into an agreement with your employer and the US government when you were hired. You gave them permission by consenting to work within the system and you probably filled out some sort of form with a W in front of it. You may work outside of the system.

I made no such agreement with the government. You are manufacturing consent where none exists. The sole reason I pay is because of the threat of force, the promise of a gun to my head if I do not. There is no consent.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#248

Post by shadowgovt » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 10:17 PM UTC

mattsfrey wrote: post #241

shadowgovt wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's irrelevant. The root cause of running a concentration camp is unimportant; they're human beings and deserve to be treated with dignity. As it stands, the US is failing to hold them to the standards we hold even incarcerated prisoners, and they haven't been convicted of any crime. That's outrageous. Treating some humans under one's jurisdiction as more "human" because they are citizens is a severe anti-pattern.

If the conditions of imprisonment are all that matter then the Japanese internment wasn't that big of a deal, they were treated quite well and humanely and in relatively good living conditions. But of course that's not the point. The point is a group of people were persecuted arbitrarily by their government for belonging to an ethnic group, something held today as universally reprehensible. You are using loaded langu…

"The Japanese internment wasn't that big of a deal" is certainly a claim a person can make, but I don't feel compelled to continue discoursing with someone who does.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#249

Post by sneak » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 10:18 PM UTC

killface wrote: post #227

sneak wrote: post #170

It’s really sad that GitHub, once a great company, sold to total military-industrial complex bastards.

You knew when it was sold to MS that this was gonna happen. It's why that was the day github died.

You’re 100% correct, it’s still just sad to watch.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#250

Post by mattlondon » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 10:18 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #19

I'd like to get a feel about what volume of employees have an issue with these things. From issue to issue I hear about various forms of employees making themselves heard but it is REALLY hard to jive with what that means. We've seen Google employees post about some ideas that seemed to be genuinely popular (measure that how you will...) but later ideas or advocacy were reportedly far less supported by the general em…

I deeply suspect that large swathes of the employees at a lot of these large companies don't really care either way.

As with any large community of people, there are some who are more vocal than others. Call them what you want (protestors/agitators/woke/etc), but I get the feeling that they're getting a disproportionately large amount of focus from the media and I guess management.

Certainly in my experience at an unnamed employer, the first I heard about protests and problems at my work place was when I read about it on the internet - there was nothing in my immediate workplace at all to suggest any of what was reported was actually even happening, let alone pervasive.