GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract • Hacker News Board

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#301

Post by thundergolfer » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 11:13 PM UTC

nrook wrote: post #9

There is a well-known strategy by which employees can exert influence over their employer and change the decisions it makes. It is called a union. Unionization has been slow for various reasons in the tech sector; when it comes to rich, well-known companies, people don't want to go through the effort to unionize and get more money when they already are being paid a lot. But if workers want to influence decisions like…

I hope in future engineers aren't reflexively thinking "compensation" and "promotions" when it comes to Unions. What's happening with Github here is clearly a labor power vs capital+management power problem.

It's the same thing with the Google sexual harassment problem and the Facebook disinformation problem. Without organised labor power, the employees are realising they've had to sell out their values for a wage.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#302

Post by jimbobimbo » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 11:13 PM UTC

noelsusman wrote: post #191

zozbot234 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If separating children from their parents (who have committed a crime) is "child abuse", then our government is responsible for a whole lot of abuse. It's not clear what this has to do with ICE specifically.

Applying for asylum is not a crime.

...at the port of entry, not in random places on the border.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#303

Post by minikites » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 11:14 PM UTC

mfer wrote: post #37

geofft wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's just more awareness of employee power - or, perhaps, technological advancement making it such that employees actually do have meaningful power and much more liquidity in the job market, that GitHub is GitHub because of the technical skills of ICs and not the organizational skills of management, whereas your stereotypical successful company 50-100 years ago was successful because of infrastructure and bus…

There's also been a noted change in how people handle things thrown at them that make them uncomfortable. A little over a decade ago universities started to notice that students, when presented with something they didn't agree with, would attack the messenger in an attempt to discredit what they were communicating. There has been a shift in how people interact. Studies have found an increase in narcissism [1] and a d…

People are tired of being treated like garbage. They're tired of seeing their peers murdered for being black/gay/etc. They're tired of stagnant wages.

>A little over a decade ago universities started to notice that students, when presented with something they didn't agree with, would attack the messenger in an attempt to discredit what they were communicating.

58% of Americans blamed the students for the shootings at Kent State in 1970.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#304

Post by thrower123 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 11:14 PM UTC

killface wrote: post #188

olah_1 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People that deliberately commit crimes typically suffer all of these things, yes. If you believe that illegally crossing a border is not a crime, then that's a different discussion that could be had.

It's a misdemeanor -- on the same level as jaywalking. and for that, they get executed, their children get raped and sold into slavery, and their women simply disappear. but sure, it's about punishing criminals :eyeroll:

Are you talking about today, or the way Caesar treated the Helvetii?

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#305

Post by BurningFrog » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 11:16 PM UTC

yazboo wrote: post #173

BurningFrog wrote: post #168

If anyone thinks Github boycotting ICE will change anything of ICE's conduct, that to me is some kind of Delusions of Grandeur. The money involved are a tiny part of a forgotten section of their budget. If they don't think it will change anything, we can agree that this boycott is purely symbolic and will accomplish nothing.

It’s not “nothing” to refuse to profit, directly or indirectly, from behaviors you find unethical.

What I mean is that it does nothing to help the victims of ICE.

It only helps some rich people feel morally superior. That doesn't impress me much, but I see others find it important. To each their own, I guess.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#306

Post by somebodythere » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 11:18 PM UTC

hnruss wrote: post #252

sneak wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes are not voluntary. I pay taxes for the sole reason that I do not support armed men coming to my house to jail me for not paying taxes. They are paid under duress. I do not consent.

No laws are voluntary. They are all enforced under duress. Men will come to your house and jail you if you don't follow them. That's why they're called "laws", not "options".

I think you two are in agreement.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#307

Post by jcims » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 11:18 PM UTC

house9-2 wrote: post #295

jcims wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is 'criminals' better? Also technically true.

'hard workers' - also technically true

As is 'bipedal'. But neither of those attributes effectively circumscribe or differentiate the set of folks we're discussing.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#308

Post by smsm42 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 11:19 PM UTC

lovehashbrowns wrote: post #277

vinay427 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's fairly clear the commenter meant that they're "illegal immigrants," which approriately describes people that immigrated illegally. While the abbreviated colloquial form may not be strictly accurate on its own, it's quite reasonable to assume the full form given the context.

The words you use have an effect on how others feel and how they're perceived. The word "illegals" can have negative connotations, and it's a dehumanizing word.

It has negative connotations because it describes the act that is against the law. That's literally what "illegal" means. If you think it's OK to violate the law, then the connotations would be positive, if you do not, then the negative connotations are appropriate. You can't have it both ways.

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#309

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 11:20 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #133

baggy_trough wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really outrageous to characterize them that way. It minimizes the Holocaust.

The Holocaust wasn't the only situation involving concentration camps in history. The US ran concentration camps during World War II for Japanese-Americans more or less because of racism coupled with fear of espionage or anti-nationalism; that's just fact in terms of the definition of these terms. In fact, when discussing contemporary US policy, it's the most relevant historical comparison. In addition to running con…

[deleted]

Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract

#310

Post by braythwayt » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 11:22 PM UTC

paulddraper wrote: post #238

ken wrote: post #235

> The results of GitHub’s quarterly anonymous employee survey — which showed a decline in trust of leadership ... In 100% of cases where I've known a small company that got bought by a much bigger company, this has occurred. It's amazing anyone still believes that their small company can get bought and somehow they'll be able to preserve (what they think is) their "company culture".

> It's amazing anyone still believes Has anyone ever believed that?

There was that time Apple “acquired” NeXT...

But for all n where n > 1, no.