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Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

catalannews.com

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Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#81

Post by yiyus »

andy_ppp wrote: post #6

The aggressive attitude towards Catalan separatism by the Spanish government seems that it will make independence inevitable...

What is aggressive about not allowing official data to be stored in foreign servers? I wonder if, for example, the US would allow the government of Oregon to store official data about their citizens in Russian servers they cannot access.

The Spanish governments (current and previous ones) have made many mistakes, and taken measures that can be discussed and even plainly rejected, but this one seems quite reasonable to me.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#82

Post by throwaway8756 »

joscas wrote: post #65
throwaway8756 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, they voted the constitution in 1978, not that long ago

The choice at that time was military rule vs. constitution. What would you pick?

Sorry but that's not true. There was a compromise between all regions and parties, but military rule was never an option. In fact, they were discussing long for an agreement that would satisfy all parties (obviously not 100%, but that's why it's a compromise)

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#83

Post by sewercake »

olodus wrote: post #80

I was interested in this because I remember there being work to get a mesh network using ipfs or something running in Catalonia. But the article mentions nothing about it. Anyone knows if that is still ongoing? Found something from 10 months ago about it here on HN. Would think that would only have gotten more relevant these days. And if it is blocking they are worried about...

Are you thinking of guifi?

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#84

Post by throwaway8756 »

swebs wrote: post #79
arijun wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the alternative to independence if they cannot return to the status quo?

Civil war.

yeah, either that or splitting the region in two parts. Who knows, it's a very difficult situation at the moment.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#85

Post by aspaviento »

UserIsUnused wrote: post #25
mikece wrote: post #4

Slightly off topic, but is there a good, short summary of why Catalonia wants to separate from Spain? I would think this would enhance the standing of the EU as it weakens the power of one of its larger members. Heck, wouldn’t it be in the interest of nefarious EU types to have countries like Spain, Italy, Germany, and France and their regions/states/departments become member States or autonomous regions within the E…

Just Spain not EU. It's the typical second biggest city not having internal relevance compared to the capital even though it's as good, together with the common claim of everything happens in the capital, decisions are there, most money stays there, etc. Also, it's slightly different culture, language, etc. And around WW2 time, there was an actual civil war. Discontent keeps happening, catalonian patriots gets in pow…

> they do a referendum anyway, (90% win for getting out)

they do an illegal referendum so that 90% means nothing when many people didn't vote (obviously you are going to take a favorable result when only the people interested on it vote)

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#86

Post by yeahforsureman »

professorTuring wrote: post #36

Tsunami Democratic is being investigated by Spanish authorities for promoting public disorders and criminal activities. So Spain is making what is need to to prevent criminal activities and (further) public disorders in Catalonia. I don't know how some Catalonian citizens are letting themselves be influenced by some corrupt politicians trying to enrich theirselves and avoid prison. Check out democracy index in Spain…

Better stick to the facts rather than partisan polemics and distortion. They made Github take down an app for spreading information on and organizing demonstrations. These demonstrations have been by and large peaceful.

Like it or not, freedom of speech and assembly are fundamental and human rights under the international commitments (ECHR, EU Fundamental Rights Charter etc.) Spain has entered into. What this looks like, unfortunately, is abusing their anti-terrorism laws to quell any protests. EU Commission should take a hard look on Spain and probably launch a rule-of-law review.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#87

Post by goatinaboat »

ahachete wrote: post #27
mikece wrote: post #4

Slightly off topic, but is there a good, short summary of why Catalonia wants to separate from Spain? I would think this would enhance the standing of the EU as it weakens the power of one of its larger members. Heck, wouldn’t it be in the interest of nefarious EU types to have countries like Spain, Italy, Germany, and France and their regions/states/departments become member States or autonomous regions within the E…

There are many alleged reasons why some people from Catalonia want to secede from Spain. They all probably boil down to the perspective that they are a "rich" region and they will do better on their own. Similar to Brexit. Probably, same wrong perspective. Irrespective of this, Spanish Constitution has a very strong enforcement of Spain's sovereignty and unity. It belongs to all Spanish people. So if that is to be al…

The separatists do not want to proceed either way, so they are trying to do it "unilaterally".

Similarly a vote for Scottish independence should have included the entire UK, the difference being of course the likely outcome!

There is a lot of this sentiment throughout the EU and the Spanish do not want to be the ones who open the floodgates.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#88

Post by yiyus »

yeahforsureman wrote: post #66
kuu wrote: post #46

What will they expect of a state defending itself and trying to keep its integrity? The Spanish constitution says that the country includes Catalonia and that the State must defend the country integrity. Modify the constitution by democracy if you don't like it, but stop promoting undemocratic and unconstitutional ideas.

Well, how about acting like a civilized European state going about it, including respecting the freedoms of speech and assembly as fundamental rights? The recent developments look very bad, and the Spanish state seems to be engaging in blatant abuse of their anti-terrorism laws.

> respecting the freedoms of speech and assembly as fundamental rights

When hasn't this been the case? I see the Catalonian independentists speaking and assembling the whole time. However, blocking airports and train stations, for example, is not a fundamental right.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#89

Post by buboard »

UserIsUnused wrote: post #28
buboard wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I presume the secessionists are actually a minority. The effect is already in full force

90% win on a referendum that less than half population attended has it was deemed has an unlawful referendum. But it was still over 90% result.

Are there actual polls on the ground? The referendum was obviously biased. If things were not so heated, a non-binding referendum might be the right choice , but this is not going to happen

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#90

Post by justin66 »

ahachete wrote: post #73
justin66 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They all probably boil down to the perspective that they are a "rich" region and they will do better on their own. All of them? That is ridiculous. It's a region that has maintained its own language since the founding of the modern Spanish state, they clearly have some cultural differences with their parent country.

So what? Also do Galicia, País Vasco, and many other regions and parts of Spain. And there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it makes Spain a richer and culturally richer place. I love this diversity. But this is not related to secession at all.

> So what? Also do Galicia, País Vasco, and many other regions and parts of Spain.

A complete list would include the Basques, many of whom would be happy to secede. We aren't talking about complete consensus and universally held beliefs.

> But this is not related to secession at all.

The idea that cultural differences - like language, but there are definitely others - are unrelated to a desire for secession, and it's all about wealth, which is what you asserted, is crazy. Plenty of secession movements move forward even though they are clearly financially self-defeating for the parties involved. (in my part of the world it's sometimes about Quebec...)

I don't have a dog in the fight but it's bothersome that you're trying to erase the reasons they are giving for wanting to secede. It's not helping anybody.

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